Ebay removed negative feedback

[frme63]

I have lost trust in ebay today.

I bought a CD from a seller who claimed this Pink Floyd CD was a rare USA 1st release (which are very collectable) and asked a premium price.  His description clearly stated it was "the rare 1983 1st USA release" with the "rare two-track mastering".  It was neither.

When I recieved the CD I found it was the common later release (they look the same) with the common mastering.  I responded to the seller with evidence that it was a later, common CD which do not have much value.  The seller was abusive and would not allow a refund.  Eventually ebay intervened and found in my favour and returned the amount paid.  I then went to send it back to the seller and more abuse followed with him saying I had to pay for return postage.  Eventually he paid for postage and I returned the CD.

I left the seller short negative feedback, which was later removed by ebay.  I was outstanded that after all that, including that he misled his claim to obtain a premium price, ebay removed the negative feedback.  So I asked ebay to investigate why the negative feedback was removed.  Eventually they replied:

Hello xxx

I understand that the feedback you've left is your opinion, however eBay has guidelines in place to ensure feedback is honest, professional and appropriate.

If feedback is not in line with our policies, we may investigate and take action. We can remove these, according to our guidelines.

We know that you may not have been aware that this was against eBay's rules. Now is a great time to become familiar with our feedback policies. Our guidelines can be found here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-ov.html

I know this isn’t the response you were hoping for, but I trust I've been able to explain our position clearly.

Kind regards,

Genevieve P.

eBay Customer Service

The feedback was not an 'opinion' but factual - I even had evidence that the listing was false and misleading! But what really bugs me, is the condenscending ebay reply about "now it is a great time to become familiar with our feedback policies "and I trust I have been able to explain our position clearly", when clearly they haven't!

So does this mean we cannot trust feedback on ebay?  

[lyndal1838]

It is a very long time since I have trusted ebay feedback.....and I doubt that I am the only one to feel that way.

It sounds as though you were very badly treated in this case.

[enigmabear]

I would not trust feedback. If feedback could be trusted,

both buyer and seller would have the ability to leave honest feedback

Ebay would'nt be removing neg feedback from (ahem) 'it's special' sellers

Have you been able to speak with a supervisor at all

The response you have been given and the abuse you've had from the seller are not acceptable 

[digital*ghost]

---

@frme63 wrote:

If feedback is not in line with our policies, we may investigate and take action. We can remove these, according to our guidelines.

---

I don't know if any of this is applicable, but feedback becomes removable if:

• It contains profanity
• It contains hate speech
• It contians a reference to an eBay or PayPal dispute
• Feedback extortion was involved 
• It contains references or links to 3rd party websites
• It contains a falsehood that can be easily disproven
• The buyer's complaint is over something that was made known in the description or terms of sale

There may be other reasons I can't think of right now. I have had feedback removed (from my selling account) because the buyer said I didn't refund. It took all of 3 seconds to prove to eBay that I did, and they removed the feedback. Sometimes a member may not mean to attempt feedback extortion, but eBay can still view it that way (anything that starts with something like "if you don't..." and ends with "...then I'll be leaving negative feedback", has the potential to be interpreted as feedback extortion. 

Feedback can be removed for other reasons, too, especially (as mentioned above) the seller is favoured by eBay - typically your big box or very high volume sellers. 

Even if none of the above was true, feedback was / is about as trustworthy as your average group of people supplying subjective opinions on things. 

[frme63]

Well, I don't know if it was a supervisor but I did ask for the complaint to be escalated further up the chain. I won't hold my breath but we'll see whether it happens and how it goes.

[frme63]

That's the thing, I cannot see where I breached their guidelines. None of those aspects apply to the feedback - it was short and simple "CD was not as described and seller was difficult to deal with".

The only guidelines that were breached were by the seller with respect to false or misleading description and harassing the buyer.

[enigmabear]

Did you call them or did you use the have us call you option when you phoned?

If you did the 'direct phone call' to the regular call center, I would def do the have us call you option and ask to speak to a supervisor (speak to them personally)

I myself and many other members have been told things by the regular call center staff that have never been followed up on (and to the point of them denying ever knowing anything about the issue when called back for an update)

Just in case. It sounds like such a generic,scripted reply from bot town

[digital*ghost]

Messages are taken into account as well - it's really easy to use feedback as leverage when dealing with a difficult seller. (I'm not saying you did, or this must be what's behind the removal, but eBay do have full access to messages between buyers and sellers, and they will read them if feedback is disputed, so if there's anything in your messages to the seller that could be misconstrued, it's possible it could explain how the seller was able to get the neg removed).

Occasionally, eBay will reinstate negs if they review the reason it was removed and determine that there was no justification for the removal. 

[frme63]

"Did you call them or did you use the have us call you option when you phoned?

If you did the 'direct phone call' to the regular call center, I would def do the have us call you option and ask to speak to a supervisor (speak to them personally)"

I called them as well as communicating to three separate customer staff through my messages.  This issue of removal of the negative feedback has been going on for some time now and finally concluded with that bot type message, well from ebay's perspective anyway.

I also called Ebay today after receiving that message implying that I breached their policies.  It is a hassle as the seller is in the USA so when I call I need to be put through to their USA office.  The person I spoke with today wasn't much help saying that she cannot reinstate the feedback - which I know she can't, I asked for the complaint to be escalated to someone higher up in authority to review the complaint. 

Interestingly, the US customer officer I was put through to was able to read me back some notes leading up to the last ebay message.  It said that it was a misunderstanding and a matter of opinion.  I'm so *** off as it was not an opinion nor a misunderstanding.  If Ebay asked me, rather than seemingly taking the word of the seller, I could have provided them with the evidence which shows that the CD was not what the seller said it was - they could have seen it anyway from reading my messages to the seller.  They just don't seem to care or interested in protecting the integrity of the feedback system.

[frme63]

"Messages are taken into account as well - it's really easy to use feedback as leverage when dealing with a difficult seller. (I'm not saying you did, or this must be what's behind the removal, but eBay do have full access to messages between buyers and sellers, and they will read them if feedback is disputed, so if there's anything in your messages to the seller that could be misconstrued, it's possible it could explain how the seller was able to get the neg removed)."

I wish they did read the messages as it clearly shows how I presented the evidence to the seller and how rude he was in return. Indeed, I initially thought it was an honest mistake by the seller as all the early USA wish you were here CDs look the same with only small details telling the 1st release with the unique, sought after mastering, from the later reissues with the common mastering.

But the way the seller responded, not just the rudeness, but ignoring the evidence, including a link to the Steve Hoffman music forum thread which also explained why the CD was not the 1983 1st release and instead, trying to turn it around by suggesting I did not do my homework when I originally purchased it! As if to say, it doesn't matter if the seller gives a false description, it is the buyers fault for not critically examining all the pictures to look for esoteric nuances to identify it is not what the seller says it is.