Express Post Query

[sueg57]

Hi All... Bought an expensive handbag and the seller was wonderful and said due to immediate payment she would post it immediately by Express Post... Well I've been tracking it and it said yesterday on route with delivery driver.... then said delivered... however didn't get delivered to me... 😞  

I've checked the address with the Seller - All Good - I've called Australia Post and lodged a query as to where it was delivered... I've called them back this afternoon and they said no news yet try again tomorrow... What if it's been delivered to the wrong address and they don't hand it back... I hate the fact that the Seller sent it and all details were correct but they didn't deliver it to the correct address.. I know it's early days but I've got a really bad feeling I won't see this bag... anyone else had the same problem but did in fact get the parcel turn up? 

All things crossed ... 🙂

[thecatspjs]

You could still get 50 bucks via the AP investigation if they find it was delivered incorrectly  - though it will need some jumping up and down too!!

Glad you were able to get another bag 

[sueg57]

I think the Seller gets that thecatspjs ... not sure - but Aust Post did just send me an email and basically called me a liar saying that it was delivered.... here we go again 😞

[thecatspjs]

Yes the seller gets the cheque and if it not reimbursed to you by them, it is called fraud.

If they have advised you that the outcome of their investigation is that is was delivered then I would email them requesting the particulars of the investigation in writing including - what did the driver say about the delivery?  whereabouts on your property was it left ?  was the time of the scan of delivery accurate according to their records ?? Essentially insist that they are accountable for their decision.

If you email them, it doesn't take up too time, unlike ringing, and I have found the responses from AP in these circumstances, to be much more informed and considered. 

[cq_tech]

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@sueg57 wrote:

Thank you for your help ... I did ring PayPal again and they said that they would have a look into this case again and let me know... she said that if they again decide against my appeal then I can contact my bank... so I rang my bank and they said to fill out a Direct Debit Complaint Form and they will tackle PayPal... I let PayPal know this and they said don't do that just yet ... let us have a chance to sort it out and we'll email you... so far nothing.. I will ring them again soon and find out what's going on..

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Sue, on this occasion I doubt that your bank will be of any assistance as the sale and subsequent account withdrawal through Paypal were authorised by yourself, and if Paypal don't reverse their decision and voluntarily return your funds, given that the transaction was in no way fraudulent, it's very unlikely that your bank will even consider reimbursing you.

If Paypal don't refund your money, your next stop should be the Financial Ombudsmans Service web site (see post #58 for the URL and lodge your complaint form on-line) as the vast majority of improperly assessed Paypal claims are overturned almost immediately once you've lodged your complaint.

I have also heard that the FOS impose a $15 fee on Paypal for every complaint or dispute which has to go to resolution, which is probably why in cases such as yours, Paypal generally cave immediately. I believe that if you complain to the FOS, Paypal will either reverse their decision and refund you normally, or they will make what they call a 'discretionary refund' (their way of not admitting they were wrong). Either way, the FOS should have this situation resolved in double-quick time.

[green-gifts-mkd]

This has been an extremely unfortunate set of circumstances for you:

1) The seller seemingly had enough proof to protect herself but made no attempt to adequately protect her buyer for, what is to me, a significant sized sale.

2) Australia Post either misdelivered your parcel OR delivered it to a miswritten address on the parcel (which is possibly why they are emphatically stating that it has been correctly delivered).

3) If the parcel has been misdelivered or delivered to a miswritten address, there is a person who has a package without their name on it. In the former, it still had a chance to get to you. In the latter, they could have returned it to AusPost to 'Return to Sender' (which you may or may not ever find out about).

So all of these circumstances together = lost item, lost money 😞

That is why you do need to insist that the seller has an official slip of paper with your address on it, stamped by the receiving PO. A quick cross-check is done before stamping: that the address on your package matches the one on the paper/lodgement receipt etc.

This is the extreme cynic in me: Who is to say that the seller doesn't know someone around the corner from you and has sent the item there, knowing that they had 'enough' protection for PayPal purposes? You do need confirmation that the seller did indeed post to your address.

It is still a possibility that the parcel is in the system somewhere, and will make to you soon. Crazier things have happened!

[byrneing-heart]

Is there any chance your parcel was stolen? 

[sueg57]

HI I'm not going to give up I've decided 🙂   I work too damned hard to be out of pocket $165 ... no I don't think the parcel had a chance to be stolen ... I work from home and I was watching the tracking online... when it said delivered I thought "what the" as I have a huge dog and he always lets me know when the postie's around... 

I think it might have been either misaddressed by the sender or popped in the wrong box by the postie ... after all we are human and they are under pressure at the moment - but what about me I thought I was covered by PayPal Protection... 

I'm going to call them again today... ask for a Supervisor - send an email and go to the Ombudsman if necessary. 

As for the Seller... still haven't left feedback.. she was all emails when her PayPal account was on hold but now doesn't want to know.. wouldn't even consider 50/50 - I would have still felt ripped off but not so hard done by...

Meanwhile I ordered the only other bag on ebay and I'm sweating that this one arrives today 🙂  I asked the Seller to send registered post so I have to sign for this one .... lesson learned 🙂 

Oh and Australia Post??   they just basically called me a liar and said it was delivered and that's that... so I'm going for them too today to complain and let them know it's just "not good enough" 

Will let you know the outcome... thank you SO MUCH for all your input and help and links it's been really really helpful for me and I feel like I'm going in to bat far more positive with you all behind me 🙂 

[cq_tech]

Sue, I'm glad you're talking this as far as possible in order to secure a positive outcome and I think I speak for everybody else here when I say we're all behind you, and will help or advise you in any way possible.

However, aside from speaking with Paypal and asking them exactly what level of 'proof of name & addressee' was supplied by your seller, and lodging a formal on-line complaint with the Financial Ombudsmans Service, following your less than satisfactory exchange with the AP representative to whom you spoke, I would also be lodging a formal complaint with the Postal Industry Ombudsman... http://www.pio.gov.au/making-a-complaint/

You've been treated appallingly by AP and the PIO has the power to do something about that.

Good luck, and please keep us informed of your progress. 🙂

[sueg57]

Hi cq-tech ... thank you so much for your kind words...  I contacted PayPal "again" today and also sent a couple of emails to which I got this reply 

Dear Sue 

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

In response to your non-receipt complaint,case ID PP-002-784-936-371 the seller provided reasonable proof that the merchandise was shipped to you. Therefore, in accordance with our User Agreement, we cannot reverse the transaction. If any issues in regard to your claim remain unresolved, we encourage you to work directly with the seller to reach an amicable resolution.
 

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,
Alicia
PayPal

So my response is this ... 

Hi Alicia

I'm sure if you lost $165 you would try everything in your power to redeem your money... I've had an excellent record with PayPal I use your company wherever possible and have recommended you to family and friends ... I think that your site now has false advertising .. it states under your Protecting eligible transactions that "in the unlikely event you have a problem with an eligible purchase.  If an item doesn't arrive or match the seller's description we'll help you recover the full purchase price up to $20,000 including shipping costs... well where has my help been?

Can you please advise what reasonable proof the seller gave you .. I'd be interested to know how an ordinary Express Post Satchel would have any notification of my name and address on it?

I will be going to the Tribunal with this case .. I have been treated very unfairly by everyone concerned including the shipping company... I am now left with no option than to take this further. 

Sue Goodfellow

Polite but firm... I'm also keeping all the notifications and contacts and the days I've phoned... as for Aust Post... still nothing so I'll be giving them another call tomorrow...

and yes you guessed it... still no bag 😞 

So PayPal sucks people... I will no longer recommend them to anyone... in 10 years of ebaying this has left a real nasty taste in my mouth and makes me very very wary of ever spending big $$ on ebay again !

Having said that by asking the Seller of the 2nd bag to send it by registered post.. I've got home from work today and there is a card in the letterbox to pick up from the Post Office ... so amazing hey.... don't ever trust Express Post ... sad thing was I never asked the first seller to send it that way ... she just did ... 

As for contacting the Seller to work it out amicably .. why the hell would she... she has my money and couldn't give a **bleep**... tough luck Sue ... Aust Post lost your bag or your a complete liar and did receive it hmmmm 

I'll keep you posted .... this is better than Days of our Lives LOL 🙂

[cq_tech]

Sue, I'm sorry to hear that Paypal rejected your claim once again but I notice that they didn't answer your question as to what level of proof was provided by the seller.

The main problem is that you're speaking with Americans who quite frequently apply the US Terms & Conditions to Australian claims, which require a much higher standard of proof of delivery, and Express Post simply doesn't cut it in Australia. It is sometimes necessary to explain to them numerous times that you're registered in Australia, and that the T&Cs are different from those which apply to US clients.

I still believe your claim was improperly rejected because of the above, but as you've already stated your intention to do so, your next step is to complete the on-line dispute form with the Financial Ombudsman's Service ASAP.

This link will take you directly to the on-line claim form... https://forms.fos.org.au/OnlineDispute