on 17-04-2012 08:02 PM
We've lost a very expensive item that was delivered from the USA via USPS Express last week. Yet the AP tracking shows that it's been signed for!
Last Sunday we arrived back from an Easter Holiday, and it seems that the AP Contractor had come Tuesday 10th at about 7:38am - there is a hangup on our home Answering Machine (my home phone number is on the vendor's invoice) at that time. The delivery status says delivered at 7:42am.
I phoned AP customer service and they say there's a scrawled signature with my first name on it. I am unable to get a copy, but I've asked the vendor to request it via USPS. I never sign my name that way, and anyway I can easily verify that I wasn't here on that day. The item should have been carded, not dropped.
Item was paid by Paypal, funded by a ANZ Visa Debit card. Theoretically I cannot claim INR since the item was delivered - and it'd be really unfair to chargeback on the vendor since they certainly did deliver something to us.
AP seemed to be saying "too bad", claim back via the vendor. Yet the only reason it's missing is because the AP employee seems to have either delivered to the wrong address or signed for it themselves and left it sitting on our front porch for nearly a week!
So, how on earth should I handle this? The item cost me almost $1000, so it's not a loss that I can "absorb". I'm wondering if anybody has had similar experiences, especially with making a claim against Australia Post for such a loss.
Thanks heaps for any advice you can give me. 🙂
on 09-05-2012 02:36 PM
AP is virtually calling Coops a liar without giving him a chance to defend himself.
They maintain that he has taken delivery of the parcel because "someone" has signed for it.
I agree with you Kazumi....it is silly in the extreme to expect a seller in the US to verify the signature of someone on the other side of the world.
I understand that correct procedures must be followed, but surely when the buyer and seller are both saying the same thing then the buyer deserves a chance to prove that he did NOT receive the parcel.
on 09-05-2012 03:29 PM
At post 85 Australiapoststore wrote
“As a parcel is considered the property of the sender until such time as it is delivered, it is the sender who will be compensated in the event of loss’.
“All this information can be found in our general Terms and Conditions here”
So I take it, Australia Posts’ position is, the Sales of Goods Act and/or the 150 or so years of authorities dealing with contract law, all of which say otherwise, don’t apply to items sent by Australia post. That is i think you’ll find that the goods purchased were specific goods and as such become the property of the buyer immediately on payment.
I think you will also find who lodges the claim has absolutely nothing to do with who owns the goods and everything to do who is best placed to make the claim. That is, though Coops owns them, as the seller has all the relevant documents they are best place to lodge it. I also think you will find that though the compensation is paid to the seller, it is done so with the express expectation that that compensation will be passed on to the person who incurred the loss and therefore is entitled to the compensation.
That is the process has absolutely nothing to do with who is the owner, and everything to do with administrative expediency.
At post 86 Australiapoststore wrote
“As I previously advised, compensation for items deemed "lost" is payable only to the sender, not the addressee. If our investigations conclude that Australia Post is at fault, we will pay compensation to the sender, in line with our Terms and Conditions”.
The goods sold were specific goods and therefore they belonged to Coops and any compensation payable belongs to Coop.
Now let’s take your logic to its ultimate conclusion. Coops is the legal owner but under the terms and Conditions is precluded from making a claim. The seller, who has already been paid for the goods and therefore has lost nothing lodges the claim and is compensated for what Coops has lost.
Again, the process has absolutely nothing to do with who is the owner, and everything to do with administrative expediency.
But there is a simple solution. The same Terms and Conditions you speak of include assignment rights. So why don’t you get the seller to assign any rights they have in the context of the Terms and Conditions to Coops. Coops can then pursue the claim and apportion any compensation to whoever is entitled to receive it. Problem solved.
And
“Investigations, particularly international investigations, take some time to conclude as there are many people that need to be consulted to ensure a thorough investigation is conducted. For investigations involving EMS articles as this one is, the charter time for investigation is 30 days”
What’s to investigate. The facts are, it was posted, it was delivered to the address it which it was sent. Someone signed for it. That someone wasn’t Coops.
So the evidence points to one of only two possibilities. It was signed off and safe dropped by the contractor or it was handed by the contractor to someone not authorised to receive it.
Now it matters not which of the two it was, because either provides the same outcome. It was lost due to the negligence of Australia Post or one of its officers and as such Coops who owned the lost goods is entitled to be compensated for that loss.
As to other matters to be investigated, ie did contractor fail to comply with directions etc, these are internal Australia Post matters and have nothing to do with Coops, and most certainly don’t justify delaying a decision.
At post 86 Australiapoststore wrote
“I'm sorry to hear about your delivery issues. I'm glad some of these were reported, however it is important to report every instance to allow us to have a complete view of delivery issues which allows us to escalate the matter and deal with it effectively; particularly in the case of ongoing issues”.
Oh I will be reporting it. But the next time I report it, someone will be responding to a Ministerial.
Finally all of the above overlooks the fact that that your own Terms and Conditions and claims process transfers ownership to the buyer once delivered, and the core of Coops claim is it went missing after it was delivered. Therefore as your Terms and Conditions require the owner lodge the claim, and as your Terms and Conditions says Coops was the owner at the time they were lost, why are you saying the seller, who for the purposes of the your Terms and Conditions is no longer the owner, still must lodge the claim and be compensated for the loss of goods which your Terms and Conditions say they no longer own.
on 09-05-2012 03:44 PM
Thanks for your input tall_bearded. If there's anything else I can help you with, please let me know.
Kind regards,
Alice F.
eBay Store Manager
Australia Post
ebaystore@auspost.com.au
on 09-05-2012 03:51 PM
Coops, I reckon it must be about time to take this to one of the Current Affairs progammes. It is patently obvious that you are being given the runaround and Alice - whoever he/she may really be - appears to be highly trained in nothing but the art of using obfuscation and weasel words.
Expecting the overseas sender to verify your signature is like something out of a Monty Python skit!
on 09-05-2012 03:57 PM
thanks for your posts Alice.
We pay a lot of money for signed delivery & it really worries me that someone else can sign for my parcels.
Why cant AP speak to the driver/contractor who was doing the deliveries on that day. You must have a copy of the signature for the parcel & a signature on the driver's contract to check it against Even if only to rule that person out. Did the driver sign for it or did someone else?
on 09-05-2012 04:14 PM
Hi Debra,
Talking to the contractor is part of the investigation process, and as Coops has advised the file has been re-opened and further investigations are being conducted.
Kind regards,
Alice F.
eBay Store Manager
Australia Post
ebaystore@auspost.com.au
http://auspost.ebay.com.au/
on 09-05-2012 04:19 PM
Australiapoststore
As you asked there is something you can help me with.
I know it’s a bit off topic, but a while back my wife asked the question vide the Australia Post website and follow-up phone call why doesn’t Australia Post (AP) provide the same on-line tracking service for large letters as they now do for post-packs. The first response from the AP representative was they were unaware of the existence of the 5kg post-pack, let alone that the half kilo and 3 kg packs were now trackable.
Then the conversation quickly turned to, if you want to track it register it. That is the tracking service in connection with post packs resulted in a few cents increase in the cost of the packs. But if I want the same service for large letters I have to pay an extra $3, and the person with whom my wife was speaking couldn’t understand why that was a problem.
Bluntly put, we found the officer with whom she spoke had such a poor understanding of APs products, that in the end my wife simply gave up trying to explain what she wanted and why she wanted it.
on 13-05-2012 05:46 AM
Hello Alice, I quoted you below
In fact, the only International service that includes a Proof of Delivery option is International Registered Post, and the service must be nominated and paid for by the sender at the time of lodgement. This is true for items coming into Australia as well as going out.
My daughter received an iphone from hong Kong the day before yesterday via FEDEX.
The fedex parcel was "delivered" and signed for 4 times. Each time a new barcode was recorded a new tracking "line" was set up a different sorting centres before it made it to the local PO.
The parcel was signed for 3 times by an individual that was not the addressee as stated by the tracking information at each sorting centre.
SHE WAS REQUIRED TO PRODUCE HER DRIVERS LICENCE AND THEN SIGN FOR THE DELIVERY AT THE COUNTER OF THE PO.
Is that service a "proof of delivery service" for an item coming into Australia but not International registered post as you stated above that it was the only available service?
Given that the item was "signed for" 3 times........ what would happen if the item was lost after the 3rd "not the intended recipient scan and signature" and the final delivery to my daughter??
on 13-05-2012 06:43 AM
I am at a bit of a loss to find which policy Alice is quoting from in APs user agreement... yes :|..... I know I am a bit slow???
76 Claim Form
76.1 A claim must be made on a duly completed form authorised by Australia Post for the purpose and accompanied by such other evidence as Australia Post may reasonably require
77.3 Where an article is lodged outside Australia for international carriage to Australia, discretionary compensation may be claimed only for damage and only by the addressee.
78 Time for Claim
78.1 A claim for discretionary compensation pursuant to clause 73 must be made within 6 months from the date of lodgment of the article.
from schedule 1 extra cover
11.1 A claim must be made on a duly completed form authorised by Australia Post for the purpose.
11.2 A claim for the loss of an article must provide, together with the claim form -
11.2.1 a receipt evidencing payment of the fee charged by Australia Post for the Service in accordance with clause 7;
11.2.2 such further or other evidence as Australia Post may reasonably require including evidence of entitlement to claim including personal identification, and evidence of the value of the article; and
11.2.3 a statutory declaration as to the details and circumstances of the claim.
13 Who can Claim
13.1 Subject to clause 13.2:
13.1.1 if the article in relation to which the Service applies has been delivered, only the addressee may claim under the Service; and
13.1.2 if the article in relation to which the Service applies has not been delivered, only the sender may claim under the Service,
13.1.3 provided, however, that either the sender or the addressee may irrevocably assign in writing its right to claim to the other.
13.2 Where an EMS International Courier article has been lodged for carriage in Australia or in an overseas country, only the sender of the article may claim under the Service, regardless of whether the article has been delivered.
on 13-05-2012 09:27 PM
AP are a faceless organisation who dont really care at all. They send these muppets on here with copy/paste response as if they are robots. If they are real humans than I hope the same happens to them.