Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

I have noticed many sellers sporting on their site that they 'take no responsibility for items once it leaves their hands'. This is, of course, nonsense under Australian Consumer Law. They are entirely responsible for the safe delivery of items to customers' hands. They're not responsible for what happens to it after that unless it's a new item that should have an expected shelf-life.

Australian Consumer Law is no joke. It's even illegal to tell customers that they cannot expect a refund for damaged/non-working goods that basically have arrived 'not as described'. It's not acceptable to blame Australia Post. If a seller is taking the risk of selling online fragile goods, then it is the seller's risk to do that; the consumer should not be wearing that risk. Either be prepared to refund sometimes, or get out of the business. 

Ebay, I've been told by a seller, told them to put that on their site. Ebay, apparently, told that seller to break the law. Which means Ebay broke the law also. If any sellers out there have been advised thus, then they had best reconsider. This is not the US; our law is very different about selling products and delivery of them.

Good wrapping saves most of the hassle. I've received many fragile items; only the badly wrapped have been broken. A cardboard box with shredded newspaper or pellets etc works fine. Balls of newspaper does not (they don't absorb much shock, they are hard). Bubble wrap without a box but in an envelope is also risky, very risky. I'm talking about very fragile things here, like china or glassware.

If you are a seller with an attitude that you will not refund for damaged in transit, then you are creating bad will for your business. I personally will not deal with any site that claims that. Consider; it sounds like you don't give a toss for the satisfaction of your customers. It even suggests, wrongly or rightly, that you might be careless in packing, as you fear no consequences.

Ebay should be ashamed if it is true that they are advising sellers this way. They should instead be advising on best ways to wrap. It need cost no more than careless wrapping. And the occasional refund is not going to break your business if it is only very occasional. Poor wrapping will raise that to frequent.

I advise all buyers who receive broken goods to take an immediate photo of the item, ALONG WITH THE WRAPPING METHOD, and submit it to the seller to discuss. I personally would not seek a refund from a well-packaged item. I don't think I'll ever have to, anyway. All these claims about post staff being gorillas are ridiculous. If an item is well packaged it should not be damaged on arrival. But if somehow it is, then the seller must accept that as part of their business risk.

The seller should, I think, expect photos to be sent as proof of the claimed damage, soon after the anticipated arrival date. Without that, or without the item being shipped back to prove it, the seller shouldn't have to refund. But that's obvious, I know.

I am a business person and I accpet the risks of my own business, which is not this sort, but nonetheless I run risks of a different kind. Don't take on selling fragile goods online if you can't cope with breakages and refunds, is my suggestion. And get clear on legalities of being a seller in Australia. Obviously, Ebay needs to.

 

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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

stop looking . . . . . I found it!

 

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2012C00142

 

Hope you don’t mind me asking this question, why do you call it Rule 101 ?

 

I couldn’t find anything that indicates that it is a ‘rule’.  I will refer to it as ‘Part 8 - Miscellaneous - 101’ from here on in as it is tucked away towards the end of the Australia Post Corporation Act 1989 in the section titled ‘Part 8 - Miscellaneous’.

 

This act does not appear to deal with the ins and outs of the day-to-day operating practices of Australia Post and, as pointed out on these boards before, Part 8 - Miscellaneous - 101 in context refers to "for the purpose of any legal proceeding or action".

 

If Miscellaneous 101 was dealing with day-to-day operations one would expect it to be surrounded by a multitude of other statements regarding posting and lodgement of articles and not tucked away in the "Miscellaneous" section of the Corporation Act.

Message 11 of 22
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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

maybe it means you cant sue them for losing your item as they deem it theirs?

Message 12 of 22
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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

the interpretation of the quoted section of 8-Miscellaneous-101 to support some premise that Aust Post owns articles during the delivery process belongs here:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/The-Book-of-Common-Fallacies-Falsehoods-Misconceptions-Flawed-Facts-and-...

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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?


@queenslander-onewrote:

 

In Australia, the seller is not legally responsible for delivery, only postage, therefore proof of postage is what is required.


If that sort of garbage held any truth then no one would be able to sell anything,(off course the seller is

 

legally responsible as the buyer has not just paid for the item they have also paid for it to be delivered to them).

 

Once you've sold and item you have to get it to the buyer and you are solely responsible for doing so as that's

 

what they've paid for,(they've paid for you to get it to them and not just for you to post it).

 

No business would last very long if they didn't deliver what they sold,tease.gif

 

 

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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

Don't have a link but that is extract from their site

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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?


@queenslander-twowrote:

Don't have a link but that is extract from their site


queenslander-two . . . . are you queenslander-one’s little brother/sister?

 

I couldn’t find any reference to it on the Aust Post website.  I did find it in the Australia Postal Corporation Act 1989 which contains the text you have quoted several times.

 

Here’s the link again: https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2012C00142  scroll down to Section 8 - Miscellaneous - 101 right towards the end of the document/page, so the text you quote can be read in context.

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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

@queenslander-two.

 

This Ebay User Agreement is governed in all respects by the laws of New South Wales.

 

As far as whether or not the parcel is deemed to be delivered once handed to Australia Post this comes under the Sale of Goods Act NSW.

 

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/.../act+1+1923+cd+0+N

 

The suggestion that the seller is discharged of responsibility once the goods are handed to the delivery company seems to come from Part 4 Sect 35 clause 1:

"Where in pursuance of a contract of sale the seller is authorised or required to send the goods to the buyer, delivery of the goods to a carrier, whether named by the buyer or not, for the purpose of transmission to the buyer, is prima facie deemed to be a delivery of the goods to the buyer."

So goods are deemed to have been delivered once handed to the carrier BUT the next clause seems to clarify that if the goods do not arrive or if they arrive damaged then the seller is still responsible as per Part 4 Sect 35 Clause 2:

"Unless otherwise authorised by the buyer, the seller must make such contract with the carrier on behalf of the buyer as may be reasonable, having regard to the nature of the goods and the other circumstances of the case. If the seller omit so to do, and the goods are lost or damaged in course of transit, the buyer may decline to treat the delivery to the carrier as a delivery to the buyer, or may hold the seller responsible in damages."

 

 

Message 17 of 22
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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

Hello Jen, long time no see.   It is lovely to have you back on the boards.

Message 18 of 22
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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

Jen you have no idea how many times I have quoted clause 2 to rebut the numpties who only see clause 1 and think they are home free if they have proof of posting.

 

Most of them have told me I don't know what I am taliking about and one chap even got chucked off the boards for the way he constantly spoke to me calling me an idiot etc and absolutely convinced he was right.

 

I gave up a few years ago and just stopped posting on the I am not responsible threads.

____________________________________________________
It says in this book I am reading that by 2065 80% of women will be overweight.

See what a trendsetter I am?
Message 19 of 22
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Re: Is Ebay telling Australian sellers to break the law?

Hi Lyndal,

 

Nice to see some of the regulars still here. I was in and out of hospital for the last few years but all good now and semi retired so just taking things easy.

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