Purchased item not working

[gr8mate2]

Hi, I purchased a keyboard for my ipad on 08/03/2021 and after a while (14/6/2021) the item started to mistype keys etc.  I sent the seller a message advising same and had no reply.  I sent another message on 19/06/2021 and still have not had a reply.  The keyboard is not not being recognised by Bluetooth and I cannot use it.  I have since sent another message today and shall see what happens but do not believe it will be replied to.

I read the eBay policy and the 30 day period is over for money back.  I cannot even leave feedback now.  Surely this device would be still covered after not working in 3 months.  

First time I have had a seller not respond to emails.  I suspect the sellers ratings have been manipulated given my experience. 

Is there anything else I can do, I pad via paypal but I did receive the item, it just does not wok anymore.

thanks

[gr8mate2]

I dont see what that has got to do with selling on eBay when they state they post to Australia and the posting for the item is in English?.  Surely if they post to Australia and advertise in English then they must understand English?.  I did not send my purchase details in Chinese and they accepted it.  I cannot see what your comment has to do with anything I have mentioned except to imply I am ‘judging’.  If you do not have a thought out comment or something helpful then don’t post a reply. 

[sandypebbles]

Sorry but you do not get to pick and choose who replies to you

Nor are you a mod, so you do not get to tell anyone not to comment if you do not like the answer you get

Covered for what? the seller is in China so there was zero warranty to start with

and no, 30 days MBG is 30 days, not 3 months 

If you had bothered to leave feedback in the first place when you got the item, you could have left follow up feedback to state your distaste 

[gr8mate2]

I may not to get to choose who replies to my post, case in point, but i can certainly make comment about their post as I am about yours.  You also do not get to tell me what I can and cannot do as you have so graciously pointed out.

I was merely seeking feedback on what to do in my particular case, not inviting a sanctimonious comment about what I am not covered for, what I can post or not post and whether i leave feedback or not.  As you pointed out, you are also not a moderator, so practise what you preach.

[digital*ghost]

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@gr8mate2 wrote:

Surely this device would be still covered after not working in 3 months.  

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Covered by what, is the question.

Leaving aside PayPal and eBay's protections for a moment, as well as the difficulties raised by time passed, the seller's location etc, I'm just going to break down what your potential rights might actually be - this is not a judgement or an assessment of what i think you're entitled to, it is mean to be FYI and you can judge for yourself. 

Warranties are voluntary, so if none are offered, none can be enforced legally, regardless of where the seller is located. 

Consumer guarantees apply to all purchases from sellers who are carrying on a business in Australia (including international businesses selling into Aus), but they don't have a universal timeframe as they are based more on reasonable expectation than anything else when it comes to how long something lasts. This is deliberately vague, as there is a lot that goes in to what constitutes a reasonable expectation - price, for example. My go to example is headphones - you can not reasonably expect a $5 pair of headphones to last as long as a $500 pair of headphones, so consumer guarantees can apply longer for the $500 pair than the $5 pair - I'm not saying you did, but if you buy the cheapest, generic version possible of an item, and it quits after 3 months while something that is twice the price is still going fine after 12 months, it doesn't actually mean you have a right to remedy, it could well mean the expectation they would last for 12 months is unreasonable and you have no right to remedy. If, on the other hand, those $5 headphones were advertised as "better quality than [$500 brand], then the seller is creating the expectation they will last as long as the more expensive ones and it becomes reasonable to expect that.  

[gr8mate2]

Thanks for that reply, I appreciate your ‘delviery’ of the message 😉

Yeah, I probably was expecting a bit much, thanks for the condor.

[springyzone · Accepted solution]

Okay, here is what I would do. I'd open a case in paypal & I would simply state that you were sent a keyboard that was faulty.

I would not go into details about when the faults showed up & in fact if asked, I'd simply say that it looked fine on arrival but some of the keys were showing problems immediately you first started to use it, the situation has deteriorated even further and you have had no replies from the seller to your messages.

That would be your best bet for getting a refund. And no, it is not entirely honest.

But then again, these Chinese sellers are not entirely honest either. They often sell stuff they state has a warranty, knowing full well that Australian buyers haven't a hope of ever making a claim on said warranty.

There is a good reason these sellers can have a 100% feedback rating. First off, feedback rating is only for feedback over the last 12 months so any negs prior to that won't show in the %. You can still read them but you'd have to scroll back.

Secondly, feedback is only possible within 60 days. That means that there could be others like yourself who buy things that are fine for a while but break down after eg 90 or 150 etc days, well after the time for feedback has expired. The seller is ignoring you because they know your time to make an ebay claim has expired and they know you can't do anything, even if the item supposedly had a warranty.

I believe though that a person who has left feedback can give a follow up comment after this time, so if you gave it a positive originally, you can still go back and leave another comment under it. I would not do this yet though if you have a paypal claim open.

I don't know if a paypal claim will work but they do allow claims for up to 180 days so it is worth a try.

[digital*ghost]

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@springyzone wrote:

Okay, here is what I would do. I'd open a case in paypal & I would simply state that you were sent a keyboard that was faulty.

I would not go into details about when the faults showed up & in fact if asked, I'd simply say that it looked fine on arrival but some of the keys were showing problems immediately you first started to use it, the situation has deteriorated even further and you have had no replies from the seller to your messages.

That would be your best bet for getting a refund. And no, it is not entirely honest.

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That's a nice way to put "lie completely to get what you want but may not be entitled to".

And of course it's marked as the solution - do you know this is exactly the kind of reasoning people who commit fraud on eBay use, like all the time? The whole "I had a bad experience, a seller was mean or unfair, I deserve to get this".

The OP doesn't mention a warranty was offered in the listing, you just used the excuse that Chinese sellers in general often lie / mislead, so it's ok to do it, too.

Unbelievable. 

[gutterpunkz05]

Yep, and the  OP seems to think fraud is OK,  hopefully  PP sees through it.

OP, you deserve what you get.

[janeababe]

@springy…… 

….just because you have lost your integrity, doesn’t mean you should encourage others to ditch theirs too. 
Are you always this dishonest, or is it just for the Chinese sellers on eBay? 
(which was you, racial profiling, btw ..) shame on you!!!! 

[countessalmirena · Accepted solution]

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@gr8mate2 wrote:

Hi, I purchased a keyboard for my ipad on 08/03/2021 and after a while (14/6/2021) the item started to mistype keys etc. [...] The keyboard is not not being recognised by Bluetooth and I cannot use it.  [...]

I read the eBay policy and the 30 day period is over for money back.  I cannot even leave feedback now.  Surely this device would be still covered after not working in 3 months.  

First time I have had a seller not respond to emails. [...]

[...]  it just does not wok anymore.

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g48mate2,

I'm replying to the main points, just to try and help you work out what expectations are reasonable and what may not be, and what remedies there are, and how to avoid similar problems in future.

• The keyboard stopped working about 3 months after you received it. I have posted many times on these boards about fake/generic Chinese-made items which are made from the cheapest possible components (not to the specs necessary for the item's continued use), almost certainly using intellectual property appropriated from well-known and respected brands, in factories that churn these out like hot cakes, without the technical specifications or capacity or functions stated. These items are designed to fool the buyer just for long enough to ensure no comeback... and in eBay terms 3 months is not an unusual working time. If it worked for around 6 months, even better from the seller's perspective, because then you couldn't even use PayPal for force a refund. Buy generic/unbranded, and expect lack of quality control and poor components not up to the item's intended use. This is one major reason to avoid items that are unbranded.
• eBay's Money Back Guarantee is not a product warranty. It specifically states that it is not a warranty. It is for items that don't arrive, or for items that are significantly not as described (SNAD) upon arrival. It's not for items that develop problems after a while. (Even PayPal's Buyer Protection is not a product warranty. Again, it says so on the PayPal site. PayPal may choose to stop offering Buyer Protection to buyers who abuse their terms and thus represent a risk PayPal is not prepared to bear... so that's worth thinking about.)
• "Surely this device would be still covered after not working in 3 months"... No. If you purchased a branded item in Australia from an authorised seller, yes, it would still be covered. You would have a reasonable expectation of its still working, and the product warranty would also state a specific period of warranty from the manufacturer (also extends to the seller if that is an authorised Australian seller). But that sort of cover (product warranty) only applies to purchases from authorised Australian sellers, and it's certainly only enforceable to such sellers. eBay does not offer or enforce product warranties.
• You can leave follow-up feedback, but it is unlikely to prevent many prospective buyers from going ahead and buying. After all, if you check the seller's negative feedback comments, did those comments prevent you from going ahead? No. There are too many Australian buyers who simply look for the cheapest item, even when it's an electronic/electrical item; they ignore safety concerns to save a few dollars. You'll do better to email every person in your contact list with your story, ending with a warning not to buy from Chinese sellers on eBay selling unbranded/generic items... and even then, I'm not sure how many people will take heed.
• The seller isn't responding to your communications now because you can no longer go through eBay Money Back Guarantee and the seller believes that you can be safely ignored. It's a well-known (lack of) response.

You have a right to a properly working item. Buy one that has been manufactured to product specs under quality control. There is a huge difference between an item churned out unbranded/generic in a Chinese factory without any attempt to ensure that each componient is made to spec and of the raw materials that meet the requirements of the product, and an item manufactured in China for a company (i.e., it's made of the components specified, to the design specified, to the standard specified). They are not the same.

You can certainly snap up online bargains... some on eBay, some on websites by respected big box sellers in Australia. What you can't do is get something well and truly below RRP from a Chinese seller with the idea that you've cut out the middle man and that therefore you're getting the real deal at a substantially lower price. If the item price is too good to be true, be sceptical. Post on these boards for a second opinion if in doubt.