on 06-12-2012 11:24 AM
Hi tall -bearded I have a quick question for you. Is it legal to state "No refunds on sale items". I purchased an item only because the listing basically said happy to refund so long as 1) in original condition. 2) not used and tags still attached. 3) within 2 weeks. When I printed out the return form at the very, very bottom the dreaded condition appeared. I though the listing was deceitful because it said there were only three conditions required for fuss free refund. Thanking you in anticipation.
on 06-12-2012 11:43 AM
I know I'm not tall_bearded but I can help you with the question,,
The listing as I see it is deceitful.. B&M stores can state that there are no refunds for sale items but I am pretty sure that eBay sellers can't..
What is the reason for the refund? If it's change of mind then a seller may refund you if the item is in original condition, but they don't have to
on 06-12-2012 11:59 AM
Consumer statuatory rights override any stated terms if the seller is a business.
If the item is not fit for purpose, faulty or not as described then it makes no difference what the sellers terms are, they must accept a return.
If it is a change of mind return then no one is obliged to accept however if the full terms were not stated on the listing then I would imagine you would most likely be able to point that out to the seller and make then honour the listing.
Have you contacted the seller?
on 06-12-2012 01:12 PM
Hi tall -bearded I have a quick question for you
Absolute CLASSIC that I'm sure even TB will ROFL
:^O:^O:^O:^O:^O:^O
on 06-12-2012 02:23 PM
Glad you got some form of excercise today Foxy, hope you didn't get splinters in your brush. 😉 Thanks to others. Problem was resolved because item didn't match photograph.
on 06-12-2012 02:46 PM
Refunds are not my area of expertise but here goes.
Whether you are entitled to a refund will largely depend on if the item was new or second hand, and whether it was a private sale or purchased from a business, but as a general rule, - “Legally, refunds are only available if the goods are faulty or defective, different to the sample shown or described in advertising, or not fit for the purpose intended’ (extract from the NSW Fair Trading web site but the same applies in all states). That is, irrespective of whether you paid full price or the sale price, if it faulty, defective or not as described you are entitled to a refund irrespective of what the sellers returns policy says.
The above is not to be confused with change of mind returns. That is you got it, it wasn’t faulty or defective and was as described, but now you see it in the flesh so to speak, you don’t like it. In such cases returns are at the sellers’ discretion, and if they do accept these kinds of returns, they can impose any limitations they like as to how and when. But what they can’t do is say we accept returns and then mislead you as to the conditions which apply. That is, if conditions apply, those conditions must be clearly stipulated in the listing..
Now if I understand your circumstances correctly, the listing said they accept returns subject to the following conditions but the “sale’ item preclusion wasn’t mentioned in the listing, and the first time you found out about it was when you tried to return it; and if that is the case, I would e-mail the seller something like.
‘In your listing you stated you accept refunds conditional on it being returned within 2 weeks with tags attached and in the same condition it was in when purchased. Nowhere in your listing did you make any mention that ‘Sale’ items were excluded, nor did you identify in your listing that this was a ‘Sale’ item. As such I expect that you will honour your returns policy and accept the return of this item..
Please advise within 7 days whether you are now prepared honour your returns policy as specified in you listing’
Then, if you don’t receive a response or the answer is no send them something like
‘As you have refused my request’, or in the alternative ‘As you have failed to respond in the time allowed, I repeat my request that you accept the return of this item and if this matter is not resolved to my satisfaction within 7 days of this correspondence, I will lodge a complaint with Fair Trading on the grounds that your listing was deceptive, Deceptive because, though your listing clearly stated you will accept returns subject to certain conditions, conditions I am, have always been, and remain prepared to satisfy, you now refuse to accept the return citing a condition which was not disclosed in the listing.
Then if they don’t respond or still refuse to refund lodge a complaint with Fair Trading.
Finally and for completeness sake, all of the above is conditional on the seller being a business, but you don’t have to have an ABN or be registered as a business to be a business, That is, if this seller buys stuff with the intention of selling it at a profit then they are a business irrespective of what label they choose to place on their activities. So if they respond with “the Fair Trading Act doesn’t apply because we are not a registered business”, lodge the complaint anyway and let Fair Trading decide if they are a business or not
on 06-12-2012 04:14 PM
Thank you, as I thought. All clear now tall-bearded.
on 06-12-2012 08:10 PM
tall_bearded may I ask for a fuller explanation of a business?
If someone buys cheap clothes in St Vinnies with the sole purpose of reselling on ebay does that make them a business?
If someone buys old wooden items and does them up with the sole purpose of reselling on ebay does that make them a business?
In the first example it would be possible (if your local op shops have a ton of good clothes) to do this with maybe 10 items a week but in the second example it would only be possible to do it with 1 item every 6 months.
Are they both still businesses?
on 07-12-2012 05:41 AM
If you buy something with the intention of reselling it at profit you will, in all likelihood be found to be operating a business, not only by Fair Trading but also by the Tax Office and DSS etc in that they all use the same test.
That is, what you buy, or from whom you buy it, or how you decide to label your activities is irrelevant. Irrelevant because the determinative factor will always be the intention behind the activity – private use or resale at a profit.
on 07-12-2012 06:37 AM
I think my last post needs to be expanded on.
There are so many variables that there is no black-and-white answer. Only shades of grey and the darker the gray the more likely it would be found you are running a business.
On the darkest side of grey is when you buy items with express intention of turning a profit. In this case irrespective of how much you sell and irrespective of how much profit you make, and in fact irrespective of whether make a profit at all, you are operating a business.
On the lightest side of grey , say you collect stamps and you buy a stamp you already have because the one you just bought is in better condition than the one you had, and then you sell the one you already had, even if you sold it at a profit, this is private sale; which may or may not be subject to Capital Gains Tax.
As for the middle ground – you are a collector and buy stamps in bulk with the intention of keeping the ones you want and reselling the rest. Ordinarily this kind of activity would still fall within the definition of private sales, but again may be subject of Capital Gains Tax because the express intention behind the activity remains to fill out an existing private collection as distinct to generating a profit.
However there may come a time when the express intention changes. That is the express intention now is to buy stamps in bulk lots so they can be sorted and sold individually at a profit, with the subsidiary intention being , if you find one you need for your private collection you will keep it, in which case you are now operating a business.
Now you can label your activities any way you like. However if the Tax Office, or DSS or Fair Trading take an interest, then irrespective of what you call yourself, they will look at all the facts and decide for themselves what shade of grey you are.