Sellers extorting feedback by intimation?

[robert_053]

When selling I have ALWAYS given feedback when the customer pays for the item. The quicker they pay the better the feedback.  AS IT SHOULD BE.

 - - - - - - - - - - - -

When buying how ever I have found a lot of sellers do not leave feedback until you leave them feedback.  Is this GOOD practice?  I don't think so, in fact it causes me to give poorer feedback than I may have originally as I class this activity as bad customer relations in the 'seller's communication' area.  As a rule I start asking why I had not received any feedback after four to five days, then if I do not receive a reasonable answer and immeadiate feedback the seller loses points.  As a majority of postal times from sellers average at least 7 days I usually wait that long before "reducing" the stars on communication.  Then every four days they lose another.

Today I contacted a seller asking "why?" on an item 320731808127 purchased on the 9th of May and received this reply:

"Dear robert_053,

Hi
thank you for your information.
our system work that when customer leave me positive feedback.
the system leave him positive also.
please leave me first.
miranda"

to which I have replied:

Hello Miranda,
That is very rude.
I order and pay for items straight away and so I expect positive feedback STRAIGHT AWAY!
What YOU are doing is extorting good feedback from customers so they will get good feedback too.
IF you had checked my members profile page you would have discovered that this is a particular "HATE" of mine.
It also causes those sellers who do it to LOSE 'points' when it comes to me making my assessment.
To me that is a "failure for proper seller's communication"
**excerpt from my page
**quote**
Business Information

NOTICE TO SELLERS!When I purchase your product and Pay immediately, I EXPECT feedback immediately!! Should you delay feedback, until I receive the item and give YOU feedback, you WILL receive LESS STARS in communication the longer you delay!
**endquote**
Sincerely,
Robb

Do YOU think I am right in doing this?

[viewmont1071]

Seriously, I would really like to know why there's so much emphasis on feedback as though it's part of the transaction.

This is how ebay defines feedback............ their words not mine

check the links.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/feedback/questions/feedback.html

Feedback is made up of comments and ratings left by other eBay members you've bought from and sold to. These comments and ratings are valuable indicators of your reputation as a buyer or seller on eBay.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/feedback/howitworks.htmlhttp://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-terms.html

Always leave Feedback after a transaction so that other members may benefit from your experience.

Whenever you buy or sell something, we ask that you leave Feedback about the transaction that reflects your experience with the buyer or seller. At the same time, we ask your trading partner to leave Feedback about you as well.

Over time, eBay memebers develop a Feedback Profile, or reputation, based on the comments and ratings left by other members. The Feedback score is one of the most important pieces of a Feedback Profile. It’s the number in parentheses next to a member’s user ID and it’s also located at the top of the member’s Feedback Profile.

Why leave Feedback?

Leaving honest comments gives members a good idea of what to expect when dealing with other members.

Leaving Feedback is also a way to express your appreciation for a job well done.

Finally, if you are a buyer, you can help spread the word about a seller you like, and if you are a seller, you can help recognise and reward loyal customers, which encourages them to buy from you again.

http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/feedback-terms.html

Why does eBay have this policy?

Feedback is the foundation of trust on eBay. Having terms and conditions that dissuade an individual from leaving feedback undermines the integrity of the feedback system and decreases trust within the eBay marketplace.

end quotes

Q.So, can anybody else see why ebay members care about feedback???

A.because ebays information and advice steers them too

Has anybody got any ideas how ebays terms and conditions dissuading/disallowing sellers in some situations to leave what they consider is an appropriate appraisal of the trade does not undermine the integrity of the marketplace????

[viewmont1071]

This a great forum post from 4 years ago... Many members are just as passionate today and I think this post encapsulates the great thing that ebay and feedback was way back when

Feedback. You remember. The brilliant idea Pierre had when starting auction web, (Now eBay) - way back when.

It was a system where we could rate our trading partners and they could rate us.

 It was simple in the beginning.

You could leave feedback for anyone.

You didn't even have to buy from them or sell to them.

A little later on it became transactional.

The comments built a trust between members - (read cu$tomer$.)

Feedback was permanent.

You couldn't change or remove it.

Unless you cussed or mentioned an investigation & a few other things no one I know ever did.

This new feedback thing was an amazing concept.

 It made the average Joe or Mary selling stuff from their garage, home or trailer look like a respectable large merchant.

(Think L.L. Bean.)

People would talk to other eBayer's in line at the post office.

 What's your feedback? 216! Wow, mines only 84...

We would "log on" each day to see if our feedback number changed overnight.

It was a source of pride.

Feedback - who would've thought?

Feedback became the backbone this new web phenomenon was built on.

And eBay grew by leaps & bounds.

The feedback system was viewed by some as flawed.

Well after all, nothing is perfect. But Pierre's feedback system was very, very close.

Brilliant in concept , execution & yes, even consequence.

Yes, you could leave a negative or a neutral for someone - before trying to work the problem out.

They could neg or neuter you back though.

And both of you kept that red or gray mark back then.

If selling - it could affect your business.

When buying, sellers might cancel your bid - if they thought you were a troublemaker.

Well, no one much liked those things to happen to them, so people worked their problems out like adults & not too many bad feedback were left.

There was peace in the community. And after awhile, even the skeptics viewed feedback as sacred....

Then, a couple of years ago, the tinkerers that Pierre hired to run eBay decided they would tinker with the feedback system.

They thought they were smarter than Pierre, I guess.

No one really knows what brought on this idea to change the feedback system.

 It could have been some overcooked Eggs Benedict at an executive brunch, or perhaps something in the air conditioning system.

At any rate they decided change was needed.

Change is always good - right? Besides, things were different now.

Or were they?

They let a new company called Square Trade remove feedback in certain cases.

Of course there was a fee.

They tell me eBay didn't get a commission from Square Trade.

 I suppose that is true...

About the same time eBay instituted a program called "Mutual feedback withdrawal.

" Some say this was initiated at the request of larger sellers to give them a means of getting rid of bad feedback, without paying a fee to Square Trade.

I really don't know....

What happened next isn't hard to fathom, knowing human nature.

 Negative feedback soon started being exchanged in record numbers.

Sellers, especially some larger ones - became a little bit more difficult to deal with.

Customer service? What's that? Hey, if someone negged you you just negged them back.

After all, you could get a mutual withdrawal. Many sellers had hundreds of mutual withdrawals.

They played this great new feature like a well oiled trombone....

And no one at eBay regulated this process - or limited the numbers.

Soon buyer

s began to complain about this unfair treatment.

Some left eBay and never came back.

Management seeing all of this, decided the feedback system needed a little more tweaking.

And that brought us to where we are today.

More tinkering to try and fix what THEY broke.

You know what I think? It won't work.

Sometimes, you need to get back to basics.

Sometimes, the simplest ideas are the best.

The Genie however, is out of the bottle, the sacred trust is broken.

Can it be put back, before it's too late?

I really don't know. A smart person would try .....

Posted by: Matchboxcarguy | February 28, 2008 10:04 AM

[viewmont1071]

Who feels that they are also a little burro?

another 4 yr old forum post

Q Why are  many members just as passionate about "little dots" today ?

A Because of the importance that ebay places on feedback.

 That's why I'm sure if they removed the guff from their help section then less people would read and heed the advice.

How about you?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward/2008/02/fee_feedback_changes_at_ebay.html

Many years ago a man had a dream. He built a tiny primitive path. I discovered the path by chance ten years and a thousand positive feedbacks ago. I used to talk to the man about the path and how to make it better so the journey could be smoother and more rewarding.

I was a patient little burro. I started plodding along this crooked narrow little path. The work was hard. Much of the territory ahead was unknown. The carrot dangling in front of me, was that by following the path, I could help my family to make ends meet by selling on eBay during the winter months when our farm income dwindles.

The sweet juicy carrot was worth the hard work. There was also some pleasure in knowing I helped to grow something much bigger than anyone expected. I was part of a herd. It seemed tangible and real. So many of us were plodding on the path, shoulder to shoulder, working together; that the path started turning into a road, and then a highway where others could share in the harvest.

Times have changed. The carrot is now much smaller. It is shriveling up from the inside out and frequently tastes bitter. New men and women now oversee the path. For some inscrutable reason they have placed many stones and boulders in the roadway. Sometimes you don't even know they are there until you've inadvertently bruised a hoof. You try to find a map to guide you around these obstacles but the information is elusive and often incorrect.

My little burro self is feeling both confused and disenfranchised. Not only is the carrot much less appealing, but now the road's new owners have brought out a switch. Somehow they believe that the best way to keep me plodding along the road is to force me into submission. To keep me in line. I didn't know I had strayed?

I may be only a burro, but I feel deeply insulted. My little hoof prints helped to turn a dusty little narrow path into a paved highway.

Today my tiny hooves are bruised. My spirit is tired. I need to look for paths where the road is more welcoming.

Where my dedication and hard work will be rewarded.

In the meantime my tummy is rumbling and life must go on .

[lane-ends]

Some people think feedback is important , some dont, thats their choice. But to those that do and check everyday, forever chasing the perfect score it means they do worry about scarring their perfect score and take pride in what they do, even if it is only a little ego stroking.

So they do try to be the perfect seller, even though that level of "perfection" is not necessay to be sucessful, it is beneficial to buyers and the overall attitude of the public to Ebay sellers..That cant be a bad thing.

On a pure business policy option of whether to leave it first or later., its a simple choice. Do what makes your system/admin smoother, and feels best and if your business/feeedback received is not adversly affected, stick to it. It is your business, therefore your choice. Like every business decisions there are always arguements for and against, and theory does not always match reality.

[digital*ghost]

@viewmont - your response, in all those words from eBay, say the same thing I did. Feedback is an evaluation of a transaction, not a part of it, so my question remains unanswered. (If everyone was so influenced by what eBay said was important, there wouldn't ever be any NPBs, shonky sellers, crude user names, disruptive forum posts.... The list goes on).

Maybe I should put this another way, and this goes out to the buyers that get angry etc if they don't get feedback for a transaction. For argument's sake, let's say eBay abolished buyer feedback.

What do buyers feel like they would miss out on?

I would like a genuine answer from anyone that feels like feedback is an integral part of the transaction.

[jillywinkle]

oh yeah...that's true Robert...I just went and looked up intimate again and well, it has many meanings...anyhoo, I thought you meant intimidate so colour me wrong with a capital W 😮

And viewmont....!!! I dont know how to do the quote thing with this new format ...so yes viewmont person...helloooooo !! I adored you little burro story, what a great narrative please write more stories for us ....huh will ya? Better still, I will just read the little burro story again...it's very clever and very cool...a real awww story....jilly

[jillywinkle]

I was pondering about this feedback thing...and yes, let's blab as much as we like any old time...because we can even if it's been hashed over dried and quartered years ago and annoys some people...

Back to the ponder ~ I like my feedback "score" now I think about it...it's like a little pet that never goes away...it just keeps growing slowly when we feed it with "stuff" that other people buy....

And, it's a great way to see if somebody actually really really liked what they bought (not to mention actually receiving it at all and in one piece) & it's also a good place to lurk for a while hunting for flattery if you are having a bad day....

[jillywinkle]

Hi Digi...I think it's an integral part of ebay transactions because (same as what I said in the last post)

You know they received the item in good order and were happy with it.....

and that's realistically and seriously what it means to me (apart from being my pet) B-) and I think it's one of, if not, the most important steps of the online transaction. The final outcome so to speak...

yeah....jilly

[the3coopers]

Maybe I should put this another way, and this goes out to the buyers that get angry etc if they don't get feedback for a transaction. For argument's sake, let's say eBay abolished buyer feedback.

What do buyers feel like they would miss out on?

Ebay and a few eBay-clones are the only online venues where buyers receive feedback. Most other places (eg: Amazon, all online retailers) just give them a receipt after they pay. Whilst Buyer feedback is a part of eBay's history, it'd sure solve a LOT of arguing if they just abolished it. eBay moves very slowly in making changes, but we're half way there, I guess. 😉

[the3coopers]

And, it's a great way to see if somebody actually really really liked what they bought (not to mention actually receiving it at all and in one piece)

Yes, that is nice. But you are talking about SELLER Feedback, however that is not what this thread is about.

This discussion is about some buyers who demand that feedback is given to them immediately after they make payment.