WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!

Everywhere wherever I read online I found that when I searched under the term of "aluminium silicate" was deemed non-carcinogenic. However what I didn't realize at the time and after buying the substance, and installing it in my car without breathing protection. and need I remind everyone that the seller didn't provide an MSDS sheet either. I realised that this substance is scheduled as a class 1B carcinogen.

 

I am now hoping that I don't develop lung cancer and I'm going to notify ebay of the seller just before posting this message.

 

Alumino silicate wool (ASW) is the same thing as aluminium silicate.

 

Why didn't I pick up on it sooner? the wikipedia page for aluminium silicate says nothing about its carcinogenic abilities, you have to dig a little deeper into the knowledge of the substance by doing a google search of "Aluminium silicate composite materials" to know that it is the same thing as ASW, and when you look up ASW and the EU rating of it, then and only then do you realise that its carcinogenic class 1B.

 

Look up "aluminium silicate wool" on wikipedia.

Then lookup "mineral wool" and skip down to "Types".

 

Then type into your browsers address bar: "imgur dot com forward slash a fwdslash YdDvo9h"

Then type into your browsers address bar: "imgur dot com forward slash a fwdslash y3JE2kG"

 

 

I must say for the record that developing cancer has put a rather dim view on buying things off of ebay in the future. I guess I had better keep my hopes up.

Message 1 of 77
Latest reply
76 REPLIES 76

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!


@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:

At home, MY safety is entirely MY responsibility, just as YOUR safety at home is YOUR responsibility.  I am amazed at your “I'm 100% certain that I'm going to get cancer” statement.  I find that alarmist and irresponsible.

 

Others who read your posts may be unnecessarily alarmed if they have used a similar product, or have that product somewhere that they frequent.


And to prove that I'm not entirely an **bleep** I"m going to thank you for this post. Why? Because despite myself freaking out over this I am going to believe in what you've said right here in the quotation marks because I don't want to panic myself too much.

 

You may find that statement that I made alarmist and irresponsible but I most certianly don't. I wanted to be 100% sure that I wasn't going to be doing anything dangerous to myself, BUT LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING. The seller said it was safe and green, there was no google search results stating that aluminium silicate was dangerous or carcinogenic. And I am still uncertain if the aluminium silicate that I purchased is the same stuff that could cause you cancer, or if it would cause cancer.


Because.

 

I am not an expert. I rely on others to keep me safe. But i suspect that even you are finding it difficult to make 100% sure that the stuff that I purchased is safe.

Message 11 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!

The removal of the substance from my car is going well, I'm carefully rolling the mats over onto themselves and placing them inside of plastic garbage bags. i'm then using a brush and methylated spirits to remove any residual trace of the stuff from the floorpan of my car. All the while I'm wearing a full face respirator. I will also be later on washing all of my clothing and then bedding and then vacuuming the car's carpet, then wiping down the entire interior with baby wipes and then removing the rest of the interior of the car and cleaning behind the interior plastic.

Message 12 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!


@k1ooo-slr-sales wrote:

 

At home, MY safety is entirely MY responsibility, just as YOUR safety at home is YOUR responsibility.  I am amazed at your “I'm 100% certain that I'm going to get cancer” statement.  I find that alarmist and irresponsible.

 

Others who read your posts may be unnecessarily alarmed if they have used a similar product, or have that product somewhere that they frequent.



 

Okay. i'll remove that statement!

Message 13 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!


@shadytreeprojects wrote:

 

You may find that statement that I made alarmist and irresponsible but I most certianly don't. I wanted to be 100% sure that I wasn't going to be doing anything dangerous to myself, BUT LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING. The seller said it was safe and green, there was no google search results stating that aluminium silicate was dangerous or carcinogenic. And I am still uncertain if the aluminium silicate that I purchased is the same stuff that could cause you cancer, or if it would cause cancer.


Because.

 

I am not an expert. I rely on others to keep me safe. But i suspect that even you are finding it difficult to make 100% sure that the stuff that I purchased is safe.


I realise you're not responding to my post, but I very much doubt anyone here is an expert on the substance, which is what makes your post potentially dangerous, because it contains conclusive statements about something you know admit you don't know anything about, and have obviously done limited research on, and no one here can - with any degree of confidence - say whether they know it to be true or not, which (JMHO) is less than ideal when you could be affecting other people.

 

I'm not saying this to be smug - I looked at stuff for maybe 45 minutes before I made my previous post, so I also can not say with any degree of certainty what the danger in the substance (if any) is. I do know that regulations are there quite often to protect the manufacturers of products, rather than the people who use them. That's why stuff that's good to consume long after its "best before" date actually has a best before date. It's why the industrial glue I use frequently is labeled as containing known carcinogens, but there's literally been no instances recorded of it ever actually causing cancer. Sure, I take some precautions, but more cause the stuff can get you high if you don't. 

 

When you want a definitive truth about something, or even just the most likely outcome, you need to ask a source that's reputable, reliable, and (above all) can prove what they are telling you is true, rather than find out a few facts, use them to forumlate a theory, then conclude that theory must be true. Especially if you are going to take it upon yourself to warn people in a public forum about the dangers posed by a particular substance.

 

Also, when researching independently, be very wary of confirmation bias (this is something that affects every single person, no matter how much they protest - when people have a conclusion they believe is right, or even if it's just the one they fear the most, they predominantly seek out information that aligns with what they already believe, which in turn makes it easier to dismiss information that contradicts what they believe. The current anti-vax movement is a classic example, albeit an extreme one, of this kind of irrationality). 

 

Here's the thing - people like to focus on key words when they interpret something, and when a phrase says "potentially dangerous", it's common for it to be shortened to simply "dangerous" and then everyone starts repeating the "dangerous" bit and never actually looks into what the danger is - like when there were several news stories a while back that had everyone going "bacon causes cancer!". 

 

No, it doesn't. It has the potential to increase the risk of cancer by a small percentage, which in turn means that if you have a 1% risk of developing cancer, eating a slice of bacon a week might increase that risk to 1.001% (not actual figures). Hence why you need to be careful about the warnings you issue, especially as a non-expert.

 

 

Message 14 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!


@digital*ghost wrote:

Also, when researching independently, be very wary of confirmation bias (this is something that affects every single person, no matter how much they protest - when people have a conclusion they believe is right, or even if it's just the one they fear the most, they predominantly seek out information that aligns with what they already believe, which in turn makes it easier to dismiss information that contradicts what they believe. The current anti-vax movement is a classic example, albeit an extreme one, of this kind of irrationality). 

 


Yes but when I read something like this, it pushes me over the threshold of being weary and panicky:

Clipboard02.jpg

 

So ASW was "translated" into a category 1B. What does that mean?

Message 15 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!

Category 1B:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen#Globally_Harmonized_System

 

Okay. so you guys say that because it causes cancer in animals, it may not necesserially cause cancer in adults. Got it.

 

Understood.

 

Message received.

 

Message 16 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!


@shadytreeprojects wrote:

Category 1B:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen#Globally_Harmonized_System

 

Okay. so you guys say that because it causes cancer in animals, it may not necesserially cause cancer in adults. Got it.

 

 

 


No, what I am saying is that if you want to research the potential risks, you need to look at information beyond the classification. There is data out there, or you could even try to find an appropriate forum or business and ask them about it (are there any Australian distributors or manufacturers who need to abide by Aus regulations? What do they say the risks are, do they have downloadable product safety data sheets etc?)

 

The classification itself presumes a risk due to results on animals, and here presumes means "we don't know for sure, but we'll err on the side of caution because it had adverse effects on animals", but, as the study I linked to points out, the tests on animals were not conducted in a manner that could really provide information on its effect on humans. To put it in layman's terms, it's a little bit like saying "don't eat apples because they contain cyanide, and that's poisonous", when the reality is that it's the apple seed which contains a compound which can be turned into cyanide in the gut - and one apple's worth of seeds ain't gonna kill you even if you do eat them. 

 

 

Message 17 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!

I think its rather ludicrous that you guys are so relaxed about this. You aren't concerned about yourselves but you are willing to put this stuff into our environment and potentially cause illness to our animals? You can't just do that, you can't just make that definition.

 

Besides, this stuff is being sold on ebay under the search term of "cotton insulation" when it is very far away from a cotton material.

 

No. I'm still going to be super cautious with this stuff and any other stuff that I buy on ebay from now on.

Message 18 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!

There is NOTHING on their pages that is a true statement. Yet you guys are bashing me for wanting to be cautious?

 

Is it true that this stuff is green?

Does it biodegrade? Nowhere on the product page does it say that it degrades in the environment.

 

Is it safe for animals?

No, hell no.

 

Is it safe for humans?

Maybe but nobody is sure.

 

Is it cotton?

No, HELL NO.

 

Do the sellers state exactly what the material is on their produc tpage?

No. they say its "ceramic silicate fiber blanket"

No. they say its "aluminium silicate" instead of defining the correct term of it being an "aluminium silicate wool".

No. they don't mention that it is a RCF.
No. they do not provide a MSDS either on the product page or with the product packaging.

 

I'll do one thing which these sellers should be doing, I'll provide a link to an MSDS:

http://www.ceramicfiber.net/MSDSCeraTex.pdf

Message 19 of 77
Latest reply

Re: WARNING! Possibly CARCINOGENIC Aluminium Silicate insulation being sold on ebay as safe!


@shadytreeprojects wrote:

I think its rather ludicrous that you guys are so relaxed about this. You aren't concerned about yourselves but you are willing to put this stuff into our environment and potentially cause illness to our animals? You can't just do that, you can't just make that definition.

 

 


What are you talking about? Smiley Frustrated

 

For heaven's sake - I don't make, buy or sell the stuff, so where do you get the "willing to put this stuff out into the environment" bit from? I haven't encouraged or discouraged the purchase or distribution of the stuff, I have only discouraged spreading warnings that aren't backed properly by current research, and encouraged researching more thoroughly before making conclusions. 

 

How is that "bashing" you? 

Message 20 of 77
Latest reply