What to do re missing parcel? Will Australia Post take responsibility, is it worth pursuing?

[theblackrobyn]

Hi all, long term eBayer here, mainly a buyer but have also been a seller of odds and ends of my own over the years - this is my first time posting on the boards though as I have a dilemma and I'm not sure how best to proceed.

In all my ebaying years I think I only ever had one parcel go missing years ago, and I think in that case the seller sent me a replacement.  More recently I had a bad transaction with a new seller who clearly did not send my item (I think she wasn't happy with the final price she got) and she provided fake tracking numbers and told all sorts of lies in her emails (they were quite funny to read as she kept contradicting herself) so in the end I lodged a claim with Paypal and was able to get a refund.

I don't recall ever having one single parcel that I have sent myself as a seller go missing, so here I am for some advice as despite my years of eBay experience, I haven't really had much at all in dealing with missing items.

I recently purchased two tops from the same seller who sent them via Express Post.  I purchased and paid for them on Sunday 29/9, then late that week realised that they should have arrived as they were express post.  So, I checked my ebay and saw that the seller had marked the items as posted on the Monday 30/9 and also included a tracking number.

I checked the Aus Post Website and it said 'Delivered' and a Suburb name on 1/10.  Now that's where it gets interesting as I have a padlock on my mailbox and nothing but letters can be fit in the slot, so I was actually expecting to receive a collection card from my local PO.

So, I sent a message to the seller to re-confim the details, she confirmed that the tracking number was correct, she has a receipt, the item was sent on 30/9, and she also has a pic of the parcel and confirmed correct address.

Next step was a trip to my local PO (it was impossible to actually get them on the phone!) and they did a search but had nothing for me.  I then visited the St Kilda DC (which is sometimes where parcels go when they are large) and they also had nothing for me.

The seller kindly lodged an enquiry with Aus Post.  Aus Post have now responded with some story that they 'spoke to the postman and he said he remembers delivering it'.  Well, I have a couple of issues with that, the first being how the h*ll he could remember one parcel from 2 weeks ago in a street with heaps of apartments and presumably lots of parcels, and more importantly, this can't be true as I have a lock on my mailbox.

So the seller has now suggested I contact Aus Post myself with the case number and see if I can get anywhere. 

She also offered me a half refund, but I don't see why either of us should be out of pocket if she has done the right thing and it's Aus Post's stuff up.  I believe that the seller did send the items - so I think Aus Post should be responsible as they have lost it.  However I'm not sure whether it's worth escalating to a complaint - do they even pay compensation?  I'm willing to sign a stat dec to confirm I have not received the parcel. 

I paid for the items with paypal, however I think if I made a paypal claim then the seller would be the one out of pocket and that's not fair either.

The other reason I am teed off with Aus Post is that the other day I noticed they'd left a small box on top of the brick bank of letterboxes out front of my apartment - I picked it up thinking it was rubbish, but it was a parcel addressed to someone in my building who also has a lock on their mailbox - so the postie just left it sitting on top right on the street for anyone to take.  I wish I'd taken a picture now, perhaps that's what they did with my parcel and then someone walking past has snatched it.

Has anyone successfully pursued Aus Post for compensation?  Was it a nightmare?  Not sure whether to just accept the half refund and move on, or whether to escalate and complain.  We're talking 60 odd dollars here, however it's the principle of the thing.

Would be grateful to hear about others who have had a similar experience, or who can offer some advice.

[kidres0]

I appreciate the time invested in this seemingly friendly response, and I will have time to contemplate it some more.

Let me just start by saying: my anger at the seller has nothing to do with the item being stolen. It has with me trying to get him to see if he can get compensation, as he is the only one who can according to Australia Post laws (despite what the people here say). He evaded, then attacked me on feedback, misusing the feedback feature and calling me a scammer. This prompted me to give him negative feedback.

Several points you've drawn on later are due to miscommunication. I was not saying I was due all the money back as per ebays rules, I am saying I made a point in my dispute that I was only seeking what he could have got in compensation, which was actually express post ($100 + postage and handling). What I was attempting to say to any buyers out there, you do not have to settle for less than the full amount if you were to succeed in a claim, regardless of what insurance is on a parcel, if ebay finds in your favor you're due the entirety of it. I'm NOT saying this is applicable to my situation. I am not saying it ever was applicable to my situation. I am just saying that it seems that that is the rules of the matter, and I wanted to clarify that speaking generally of buyers rights.

I considered dropping it altogether, but he trolled me and accussed me and evaded questions, he failed at customer service 101 and he deserved everything he got. People should be made aware that if this happens to them, he will accuse them, troll their feedback and not assist at all. I actually started the dispute because the seller refused to offer any help, even making the first call to begin with. I didn't leave the feedback until well and truly after he done all these things. I was apparently the victim of a theft (if Australia Post is correct) and I was being treated as a criminal by this seller! I tried to keep things friendly, including stating from my very first post that I did not hold the seller responsible for the situation. At the time, I had minimal comprehension of procedures and rules, and was researching it up as I was going along. I thought there was a prospect that I would be able to make a case before ebay that protects both buyer and seller. I needed to test this out, because that is what you do in a situation like this: you need to! I am not made of money, that instrument was to help dig me out of a hole I am, and it has practically buried my musical ambitions. I can't afford another instrument of its type, not that I would ever have the courage to buy one again knowing the seller doesn't have your back! And quite clearly, that is the standard from sellers here too. How about a minimum of some empathy for their situation, given only they have access to request compensation?

So stop making me out to accusing him of being responsible for the theft. I never said that! I made it clear time and again he trolled my feedback, accused me of being a scammer/thief and dodged questions.

[countessalmirena]

Some years ago, before he took up the cello, my father used to play the clarinet.

He is a bit of a cheeky one, my father. He gets devilish little glints of dancing glee in his blue eyes, and you know he's about to spin a tale or relate something outrageous that he did as a young boy or embark on some playful bit of nonsense... He noticed one sunny day, when the windows were open, that one of the dogs belonging to one of the residents of the street would howl upon hearing the clarinet being practised. So... what did he do? Of course he would take his music chair outside, arrange himself comfortably, and vigorously practise a set of musical exercises on the clarinet (ascending thirds in groups of three).

All the dogs for surely miles around raised their voices in bewildering cacophony. "Aoooh!" "Aaaaooooh!" "Rrrrooooo!"

To this day, I don't know whether it was in protest or in delighted counterpoint.

[lyndal1838]

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@kidres0 wrote:

I appreciate the time invested in this seemingly friendly response, and I will have time to contemplate it some more.

Let me just start by saying: my anger at the seller has nothing to do with the item being stolen. It has with me trying to get him to see if he can get compensation, as he is the only one who can according to Australia Post laws (despite what the people here say). He evaded, then attacked me on feedback, misusing the feedback feature and calling me a scammer. This prompted me to give him negative feedback.

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You are forgetting (or ignoring) the fact that the seller CAN NOT apply for compensation.....and neither can you!!

The item is showing as DELIVERED by Australia Post.

Once the item is delivered the seller has nothing to do with it and cannot negotiate with AP.

If you want to claim any sort of compensation YOU will have to prove that you did not get the item.....good luck with that if AP can prove it was delivered to your address.

[countessalmirena]

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@kidres0 wrote:

[...]I needed to test this out, because that is what you do in a situation like this: you need to! I am not made of money, that instrument was to help dig me out of a hole I am, and it has practically buried my musical ambitions. I can't afford another instrument of its type, not that I would ever have the courage to buy one again knowing the seller doesn't have your back! And quite clearly, that is the standard from sellers here too. How about a minimum of some empathy for their situation, given only they have access to request compensation?

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It's very unfortunate that this has happened. Being robbed is an invasive and horrible thing.

The only thing that I could suggest is that, if you are able to get the money together for another purchase, you make absolutely sure that the seller will send with SOD and full insurance. (Ask about this before you bid/buy; get the seller to add that as a postage option, so that you can select that option and make the appropriate payment.)

It really is not the seller's fault. I hope that this has come through; the seller seems to have tried to assist, but there is nothing really that he can do in this instance, awful as that might seem.

I don't suppose that there might be any sort of security footage from the day of the delivery...?

Anyway, I hope there are better times ahead for you.

[kidres0]

The theft was not the sellers fault. His trolling me, accusing me and not being of assistance was his fault! And that was more to my point about this whole thing about the buyer being due everything if a claim were to be successful: if I had paid for extra cover, this seller wouldn't have lifted a finger in good will. that would have been more money down the drain. Because people don't chase money unless it's their own. This is why if the seller can't prove delivery (not applicable in my situation) ebay sides with the buyer and gives them a full refund: it is only the personal who contracts Australia Post who can claim for compensation, insurance is on him! It is only him who will chase it if it is his own liability. They don't give a stuff about anyone but themselves, and won't spend 5 minutes even making a basic enquiry.

So ebay sided with the seller and removed my 1 and only negative feedback EVER and left his trolling on my feedback. He probably lobbied them for the last couple of months until he found the one sympathetic customer service person to remove it. I have a few things I need to get but it is probably about time I look into saving my money and not do business with ebay if they won't even allow me 1 negative feedback for being treated like I was by this seller.

[countessalmirena]

@kidres0,

I take it that you have not had any luck in getting any further information about the missing parcel...?

As I posted earlier, an item that cost you $335 is a lot to lose, and I am sorry that you're in that situation.

(I think the negative feedback issue is a minor thing in comparison with the loss of the actual item, and I hope you won't let it bother you too much. I suppose you checked with each neighbour at the time to see if they saw anything...? Has there been any attempt to sell the item that you bought? If anything of that nature pops up, you could follow up with the police.

It might seem hopeless, and there may never be any resolution to this. I've been the victim of car theft, and on another occasion having a car broken into and items being stolen, and various variations on this theme. I still gnaw my teeth a little when I think of the coat that someone stole; theft is such a mean and selfish thing.

[kidres0]

No luck on anything (compensation or news on the item) and I have given up by now. If it shows up, it will truly be a miracle and I will update this thread. It is on the polices stolen records with serial number, so there is always the chance I'll hear about it 10 years from now. There was a time when I was taking photographs of similar sized parcels along with magazines with dates on them in the hope it was it and to prove the item arrived when it did, but those parcels were sadly other, far less expensive things.

Earlier I bought a thrilless Casio, but ridiculously oppressive circumstances prevent me from being able to play it. I needed a small 2 octave instrument to practice on most of the day. I can't play any instrument that generates noise outside headphones, so even though I bought a harmonica I can't learn to play it right now. One of the benefits of this instrument is that it'd have given me the opportunity to approximate wind/string instruments through a keyboard since even quiet guitars/violins are not quiet. I want to be an independent game designer and am learning programming. In order to achieve this, I need to learn art and music. This was the music side. And it crushed my spirits when it was stolen, I ceased making progress for over a month. But I'm getting back into programming now and am making strides in that respect. I have been creating a program that recreates music from MIDI (not the same as a MIDI player), so I may try to do all my music learning through programming. There's NOTHING to stop me from creating my own 5 dimensions of sound music program.

I also found out where I am able to respond to his negative-positive by chance this morning. I never made a claim for its removal because I didn't want to give ebay an excuse to remove his. I didn't think I did have an opportunity to correct the half-truth but now I have. I will leave it, but will escalate it if the seller is able to counter my feedback again and does so.

I do find it interesting that ebay saw the need to remove my negative feedback when the seller made NO effort himself to counter the accusations, but I guess that says everything I need to know about this site.

Some say they shop through Amazon. I used to do most of my buying through Amazon.co.uk until they cut us off over GST. I will give Amazon.com.au a chance in the future. Maybe they have improved. Or just save my money and invest, as I have been doing. Going to learn the money trade even if in the short term I lose.

[padi*0409]

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@kidres0 wrote:

I also found out where I am able to respond to his negative-positive by chance this morning. I never made a claim for its removal because I didn't want to give ebay an excuse to remove his. I didn't think I did have an opportunity to correct the half-truth but now I have. I will leave it, but will escalate it if the seller is able to counter my feedback again and does so.

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With follow-up feedback you only get one chance at it, but the respondent can have a follow-up to yours and that's the end of it, you are not able to add more to it.

[kidres0]

I mean I will report the negative-positive to ebay if he does so. If he doesn't, that will be the end of the matter. But if he tries to get one over me by further abusing the feature when I was only asking for his assistance I will attempt to escalate it in that manner.

I frankly don't want to lose anymore faith in people by escalating it such as having the ebay people side with him even though he is clearly abusing the process, so I'd prefer it be left at that. But if it comes to it, I will let other buyers know just what happens. Only one of you may be faintly sympathetic to what happened, but I am sure there are ebay buyers who will want to know how ebay treats me.

[kidres0]

By the way, it didn't work either. Didn't discourage sellers. My first transaction after it was cancelled by the seller which led me to the impression it was over it, but it was miscommunication and we rearranged the transaction, I received it and left the seller a positive. No one has since cared that it was there. So all the sellers out there who think trying to derail a buyer for being the victim of theft and asking for assistance (as Australia Post told me I needed to do) by posting negative feedback in their positive feedback is the way to go, sorry to inform you it didn't play out that way.