damaged vase

[sprinklespowerpuff]

Hi, could I please have some thoughts from experienced sellers on this. Received today 2 ceramic vases. When opened 1 fine, other large crack. In seller's pics on listing no damage at all. Paid for registered post, no insurance. There was some foam inserts round inside of box but not a lot of bubble wrap or other protection on inside top of box. Mailing box was not damaged. No dents, squashing nothing. These only had to come from Toowoomba to Brisbane not the other side of the country. In seller's listing they state will not take responsibility for items damaged in post without insurance. I know AP are picky now about packaging and believe they would say there wasn't sufficient packing. Seller did tape "fragile'' printed sticky tape round box. Postage cost me $17.95, vases were $20. Have sent msg to seller but no response - as yet. Was a few hours ago. I would like to add that I have bought quite a few ceramic/pottery items here and o'seas and never had damage like this. Huge crack. Thanks so much in advance for your help.

[phorum_junkie*]

That is until the seller disputes the decision with the FOS, at which time PayPal will  reverse its decision;

Paypal do not reverse the decision, the seller may get a discretionary refund from Paypal if they have made a wrong decision in favour of the buyer but that makes no difference to the buyer, they get to keep the refund.

Any buyer receiving a damaged item should take it to the PO with the packaging and get a decision from AP as to if the packaging was sufficient, if they say it was then the buyer can put in a claim for compensation to AP up to the value allowed for the postage method.

If they say the packaging was inadequate or the seller used a postage service that does not cover the full value then the buyer should ask the seller for a refund, they should send pictures of the damage and the proof from AP that they are not liable.

If the seller refuses to refund then you open a Paypal dispute and are very specific about the damage. Paypal will almost certainly find in your favour but then you will be required to send back the item, at you expense by registered post or click & send.

Any seller who asks a buyer to return a ceramic jigsaw which has no resale value when they have got photo proof is nuts and you should immediately leave them a neg.

[dylan11235813]

Just because one vase was fine and the other broken means nothing.  One may have been more sturdy.  Or the broken one was on the side of impact; even if the box was not damaged if there was not much stuffing around the vases, if dropped the would have been force impacting on the fragile item - possibly the other vase hitting against this one.

Does not matter how many times seller will say they are not responsible, they can put it in neon lights, the fact is they are responsible for packaging safely.  Who else should be responsible?  As TB said, if it was well packed then AP would compensate. 

The problem is that if the seller does not offer reasonable partial refund, and PP rules in sprinklespowerpuff's favour, she will have to send both vases back for refund.

sprinklespowerpuff  of-course you have to supply photos of the damage, why should the seller take your word for it? 

It is part of the terms of sale though is it not (if broken too bad)?? and how much packaging is enough? Sorry nova bit I disagree. I do agree though that the seller should package "appropriately" but to what level?

[***super_nova***]

It is part of the terms of sale though is it not (if broken too bad)??

The seller's TOS cannot override eBay/PP TOS = it is seller's responsibility to pack adequately.  If it is packed well enough, AP will compensate, so there is no issue.  BUT it has to be packed well enough to the AP standards = it has to withstand being dropped from 1m to concrete floor and have 20kg(? i think) to be dropped on the top of it.

[phorum_junkie*]

If it is broken then it is indeed too bad but it is too bad for the seller or AP, whichever is responsible.

If a seller's TOS could overode ebay and Paypal terms it would be great for sellers, all I would need do is put in my listings, right down the bottom in amongst loads of other TOS, where nobody would read it, is that if i never get round to posting the thing the buyer isn't entitled to a refund.

If that invalidated a Paypal claim then I don't think ebay would last long!

[dylan11235813]

If it is broken then it is indeed too bad but it is too bad for the seller or AP, whichever is responsible.

If a seller's TOS could overode ebay and Paypal terms it would be great for sellers, all I would need do is put in my listings, right down the bottom in amongst loads of other TOS, where nobody would read it, is that if i never get round to posting the thing the buyer isn't entitled to a refund.

If that invalidated a Paypal claim then I don't think ebay would last long!

I am not saying invalidate paypals TOS . but surely I can set terms that enable me to operate as a business. Ebay policy says that I can not add to a listing : "I am not responsable for lost items in the mail" or something to that effect.

Why do they specifically disallow that statement in a listing?

[lyndal1838]

Because ebay rules state that the seller is responsible for getting the items to the buyer in good order and condition.

[tall_bearded]

Please PJ can you refer me to that part of the eBay and PayPal Users Agreements which you say are being contradicted, if the seller puts in their TOS that they will not be held liable for items lost or damaged in transit.

And while you’re at it, can you please provide your response to the other thread where you said, if I provide you with a copy of the relevant legislation, which I did, you would show me that part of the legislation which says the seller is legal liable for any loses or damage to goods until such time as they are received by the buyer.

[sprinklespowerpuff]

Hi all, all your commentaries are very informative, thanks. Have not heard back from seller as yet - my msg re partial refund was sent late last night but dropped in here to say I will not be sending cracked vase back to seller. That's nuts as another road trip will completely split the vase open for sure and as another poster stated previously what's the point when seller could not re-sell the thing anyway.

[sprinklespowerpuff]

Also no way would AP say it was their fault and not seller's as I've said previously there was no damage to box and anyone would say no way would contents withstand the sort of drop other posters have mentioned and certainly not then having something else of any weight dropped on top of it. There was not even any padding placed INSIDE of vases either so no I will not be taking the whole lot down to local PO for assessment as it would be a total waste of my time for nothing with regard to the amount of packing required by AP to meet their standard for compensation.  

[fotegra]

See eBay Help Pages for Selling: http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/selling-practices.html

What not to do

• Say that you're not responsible for item delivery or ensuring that the item is delivered as described. For example, eBay doesn’t allow statements like "I am not responsible for the item once it's dropped in the post."

What you're not allowed to charge

• Insurance: You can't charge a separate fee for insurance, although you still need to make sure your item arrives as described

The seller is responsible to get the item to you in the condition it was advertised.  If you see any listings where the seller says they are not responsible for the item once it is posted, report it to eBay because it is a policy violation.  Sellers are not permitted to charge insurance.  If they wish to take out insurance themselves, that's their choice, but it is to cover any losses they might incur in having to replace a damaged item.

If you've paid with PayPal, lodge a dispute for 'Item Not As Described'.  If the seller is unable to replace it, PayPal will refund you.  You may need to send the broken item back, but maybe PayPal will accept photographs as proof instead.  Good luck.

I am an eBay employee, but am posting this comment personally.