iphone5s scam *****urgent*****

[delinquent77]

Last night we were scammed when we purchased an iphone from someone with the username <Removed>. Usually we are very careful when buying anything from ebay, but last night we got duped  about an hour after we bought the phone we got an email from ebay saying the item had been removed, then when we went to contact the seller we discovered they had deactivated thier account. On further investigation today we discovered that this user duplicated an ad that actually belongs to an online ebay store <Removed> who are legitiamte ebay sellers. They even used thier location, and terms and conditions etc.  I spoke to <Removed> this morning who informed me they had been getting calls all morning about this from other ebay users who also bought the item.  I have taken the appropriate steps, with both ebay and paypal to get my money back but it will take a couple of weeks. I have read today that ebay is having alot of problems with iphone 5s scams.  I did speak to ebay last night but they were uselss and couldn't give me any information. They couldn't even explain to me what the email that THEY sent me meant.

I would be very interested in hearing from anyone else who got sucked in by these same people  or any similar stories as they may be related. 

[*crikey*mate*]

juyst had a thought - thinking about the hacking

how do the fraud squaddy people trace the scammers?

I mean, like with the hackers, don't they keep it quiet that they have discovered them so the keep online tryiong to do naughty stuff and then they fraddys are lead to the hacker?

Maybe it is the same for the scammers.

If they get shut down on "sight" there is no way to find out from where they originate or who they are. So shutting them down immediately alerts them that they have been busted, so they just get another iSp and start another account

maybe that's how eBay are directed to handle scammers/frauds/hackers etc - report to the relevant people and then let them chase it up to see if they can find the source?

dunno.

I'm just reading between the lines of what eBay told me as to why they don't act on people doing some things immediately, but take the "wait and see" approach.and why they recently blocked access to so much of the information that we all used to access here to help members with questions.

Think about when you have someoine interfering with your account, like another eBay member, you know, things like looking at your accounts which you have chosen to keep private from the boards, but they found anyway, and then report on things to other members or oin the boards etc thus breaching privacy, auction bombing - all sorts of stuff - we have all heard the stories over the years, and some members even brag about doing it on the boards - the silly people.

anyway, eBay's stance is they can flag a susopect members ISP and accounts and watch to see if they interfere with your accounts etc
, but until they get proof, they won't act.not just on someione's allegations.

yeah I know that all sounds clumbsy in explaining, but I hope that some can kind of muddle through it and see where I am coming from.

............................................................................

I think the difference in duplicate listings vs fraud and scammers and privacy breach etc is that one scenario is illegal whereas the other is only against policy.

It is not illegal to list a duplicate listing, but it is against policy, so if eBay removes one, even if it is a mistake, it is unlikely there are legal ramificaTIONS iykwim

but to accuse someone of criminal activity, without proof, that takes some balls and may explain why eBay is so adamant about the requirement of absolute proof in some areaS but not others

think about a PayPal claim. If a buyer claims something is a fake, the onus is on the buyer to get independent third party proof that the item is a fake.

just some thoughts

[*crikey*mate*]

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@ajarnjenny wrote:

I have to agree with that. They remove legitimate listings all the time. Yes, for duplicates that aren't, for wrong categories that are in the correct category and probably others that I haven't come across.

They don't have to say that they are removing it because it is a scam. 

Surely, once reported and their location is Erskinville NT, is a violation of some kind.

Using the wrong postal system has to be another.

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as I said above

some things only violate policy, but some of the things underr diuscussion break laws

that probably accounts for why some things are handled differently.

Breach of policy is one thing, and unlikely to attract legal repercussions or expense if they are in error

But allegations of criminal activity are pretty serious and a completely different ball game which requires legal proof and procedure to address.

[thecatspjs]

eBay takes alleged "criminal activty"  listings down on daily basis - banned weapons etc, knock-offs of brands via vero, via reporting and via its bots etc etc etc etc etc .on a daily basis. 

[go-tazz]

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@*crikey*mate* wrote:

so what can we do about it?

Nothing has worked in the past and they simply wont take any notice of reports,(you have to wonder why

they don't care).

what is the solution?

At present the only option is to keep reporting them,(somewhere along the line they are going to figure out

that they aren't getting as many new members staying).

what we are doing isn't working.

but it has to be done legally, or eBay won't play, they are adamant they need proof, that they are not authorized to determine such things without approval from their legals

They where given all the proof they needed with the RR seeds,(I included links to show how they are made

and linked forums that showed how they are a laughing stock for allowing them).

The forums that stated how this site allowed these scammers where all shut down,(that shows you that they

don't want those scammers shut down).

so from my chair right here, it seems we have to deliver a way to provide the proof that they require (admissible proof) to take action.

When the 150 plus Chinese scammers listed items last year it took me five Emails before they started to

remove them.

By the following week I had to go through the same thing again as they would only remove half of them.

I gave them all the ID's and near the finish they where removing them daily,(hence why they stopped listing).

So the only proof they needed was to see what I was seeing.

for the seeds - do we buy some and photograph progress and provide evidence? If eBay wont shut it down, then do we show them how easy it is to prove? provide the proof they won't get? Has anyone done that or is it just members sending emails? maybe we provide proof, maybe we get letters from authorized seedy people iykwim?

They get away with it because they can be no honest feedback given as it's way past 60 days by

the time that the plant flowers.

This is all the proof they should need: rainbow rose

There is an added obstacle/whole in the profit theory

The Chinese ones and some other o/s ones are paid by paypal, so the buyers that pay are covered

No they are not as the sellers state that it takes 40 days for the seeds to germinate,(add another two months

for them to flower and it's past any PP claim or feedback).

and the other scams, eBay only gets the fees on what is payed for, right? but unless the seller is shut down, it is unlikely that they pay their bills before they bail

eBay wouldn't get any money so it's in their best interest to shut the scammers down.

Dunno Tazz

but the bottom line is how to get proof - no matter how obvious.

IMHO it doesn't matter what proof you get as eBay don't want listen and they will simply ignore you if you

press them,(which seems to be an ongoing issue),

do we ask the ACCC? The Feds? online fraud protection sqauddy people?

These scams are happening world wide so it's not just a local or eBay only issue as other online sites allow   

these scammers as well.

It seems as if the Chinese have immunity and can list scam items without a concern as they know they will not

be shut down.

we have an open door now, how do we make it count so they listen?

why don't we put something together to maske it wiorth their while to listen?

They only need to come to this thread to see what a concern these scam listings are and that they'll only

escalate if nothing is done about them.

but it has to be more than unqualified members (no disrespect meant, but that's how eBay see us) pointing the finger.

None taken but I would put Silver and any of the regular/past members that participated in the HH thread above

the current T& S agents in finding scam listings,

did they ever give a reason for shutting down hijack hunters? I mean did they actually say anyth8ing - not why we think it was shut diown iykwim

The reason given was that we might get it wrong and a real seller could be tarnished,(which goes against

everything that they told us to do to allow the thread in the first place).

We only ever posted listing titles as per their request and it was stated in the beginning of the thread that eBay

would only remove listings if they believed they were scam listings,(so it didn't matter if we got an occasional

one wrong).

These where their words,

I believe Stuff might have been the one to encourage them to shut it down,(she always did so in the past).

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Sorry about the scroller,

[*crikey*mate*]

well weapons and those under the vero program are pretty easy to identify.

I mean a knife is a knife regardless of who lists it - not too hard to prove, eh?

whereas the incidents we are discussing is where it is the actual seller who is fraudulent (allegedly) listing perfectly legal goods.

as for the Vero program, as far as I know it is different to the scenario being dioscussed too.

from what I can make out, even legitimate items are pulled under that program, for example if an seller not authorized by Chanel or LV listed an item, even the casual seller offloading a one off thing from their cupboard will have their listing pulled because of the program these people have signed with.

and then those products are generally only removed (as far as I know) if the actual person on the vero registered doobie reports them? (could be wrong here - noit sure)

whereas other designer labels are not affected.

I don't think that apple products are in the program, are they? (ie the phones etc) or the rose seeds?

Thus not affected by the workings of Vero

[*crikey*mate*]

and if the law states that the sale of a knife is illegal, and somebody lists that knife - the proof is pretty airtight, wouldn't you think?

so again, I think there is confusion on what is illegal and what isn't and the types of proof that are deemed adequate.

The sale of a phone is not illegal (as far as I know), it is the seller operating in an illegal manner which is the issue there

whereas the slae of a specific knife is illegal - hence the product, not the seller iykwim

[go-tazz]

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@silversterio2 wrote:

To get this thread back on track.  I  wrote

"Thank you ebay for finally starting to remove some of the completed SCAM listings for  Ipads"

but at the time of writing this, it appears that ebay completely stopped removing anything after the first few.

http://tinyurl.com/n5hp85v

At least 75 buyers involved  just in the last few days ... some of the completed listings aren't showing yet.

Not good enough ebay !

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Certainly not good enough,(the current live one has two sold already)

[go-tazz]

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@phorum_junkie* wrote:

I just cannot understand how buyers can fall for these scam listings. How do they think these sellers could sell them so much cheaper than Apple? How can they possibly send them express post unless they are using a pecialist courier who would charge as much if not more for the delivery than they are asking which would have me hitting the back button immediately, not that I would be anywhere near the listings in the first place?

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You'll find that they are mostly bought by inexperienced low feedback buyers who believe that eBay could still

have bargains like these available,(gullibility is why these scammers keep doing it).

[go-tazz]

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@lyndal1838 wrote:

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Sorry, but this "proof" that is required for ebay to remove a listing is just a crock of s***....they can obviously remove any listing they like at any time.

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That has always been the case IMO and therefore these listings should've been gone by now.

If listings get multiple reports then off course there is a problem with it and the reports should be acted upon.

Have listings still sitting there in completed is completely wrong,

[*crikey*mate*]

LOL tazz - I like scrollers

so why are some scammers allowed and not others?

There has to be a reason.

and I just can't believe it is a decision driven by money, eBay have so much more to lose than any ioncome derived from the scammers. I mean this sort of stuff attracts jail sentences and incredible fines if nothing else.

 And it isn't eBay that gets that, it is the directors representing eBay - so not some unidentified identity - so there is a lot to lose, eh? I mean I know that corruption exists in all sorts of businesses, but the eBay scammers are not a new thing, but the heads of eBay have changed over the years, so even if some of the leadership has/is corrupt, is it really possible that this is an ongoing thing over 20 odd years?

Is it really possible that with all the attentuion scamming issues are given, that not one international or domestic law enforcement body has taken action?

So the only conclusion I can draw is that it comes down to law - and remember generally speaking Criminal law tells us only what we can't do (so eBay may have their hands tied here as in what they can do iykwim) ie it is illegal to accuse someone of a criminal activity without some kind of court ruling.

woeded clumsily, I know, but hope you get my drift - ie a murderer, even if there were 1000 witnesses, and truckloads of evidence is not a murderer until a court says they are.

are you kind of getting what I am saying?

I don't know enough about the rose seeds - but are the listings saying that specific seeds will grow a flower or providing them merely as an example of what could be acheuived if cultivated/propagated in a certain manner?

you know, in the way the listing is worded - that may account for why some are pulled and others arent

trying not to write a scroller to elaborate further.

like does the listing say - this seed will grow a blue flower, or could it be explained as "I will send you a white flower and if you dip it in blue fiood colouring, it will go blue

that kind of thing

the listings i looked at - had a variety of colours listed, so maybe the multi coloured ones are really a mixed bag of seeds?

(dunno, have any of us ever bought and propogated them?

If you find me a listing where you reckon I might actually get the product, I'll be happy to have a go - you know that I have recently entered the gardening ophase of my mid life crisis LOL - not sure how I would go with roses though - just up to herbs and raspberiies and passi9onfruit kind of things atm (but my gerbras are getting new flowers as we speak! *proud looking* well 2 of the 4 plants are, but the other 2 are at least still alive - just no flowers coming through atm LOL) oh - and the snails ate my yellow flower things *sobs*