When is eBay going to do something about the reproduction and fantasy items that appear?

[justin67au]

I continue to see items sell for prices well beyond what they should because of either unscrupulous sellers or uneducated buyers.

Some sellers will inform the buyers that an item is reproduction.For example,a Golden Fleece oil bottle reproduced for approx. $70 sale price.

Currently,the same bottle is listed,and has reached $951 and not finished,and there is no mention that it is reproduction.

Surely this is something that needs to be resolved!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CONTEMPORARY-H-C-SLEIGH-GOLDEN-FLEECE-OIL-BOTTLE-WITH-METAL-POURER-AND-C...

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Golden-fleece-oil-bottle/263525483120?hash=item3d5b57c270:g:M44AAOSwXf5a...

[kopenhagen5]

How do you know it's a repro ?

And that's the problem, how can eBay determine n prove it's a repro without having the item in their hands ?

[siddieswans]

As a seller of “old stuff” I am faced with this problem all the time

1. eBay don’t know; eBay don’t care
2. Sellers don’t know; sellers may not care
3. Buyers don’t know; buyers may not care

eBay are of course part of the problem. Go to list something in the Antiques category, and one of the Item Specifics is Original or Reproduction – duh! How can it be an Antique if it is a Reproduction?

eBay frequently does not have a suitable category in which to list your item, particularly on Oz  eBay. For example, the only specific Silver category on Oz eBay is located within Antiques, so you get very modern silver items being listed within Antiques, because  people are going to look for silver items there.

I have been collecting / buying / selling “old stuff” for over 45 years but what I don’t know would fill libraries. Should the fact that I am not certain about an item stop me from selling it? I go to real life auctions every week and frequently see items being mis-described by so called “experts”. I try to be very careful with my descriptions and frequently over-do photos to try and make sure that people know what they are buying. By doing this I put myself at a significant disadvantage behind Sellers who show one blurry picture and copy a title from some other “similar” listing.

Particularly in the area of old jewellery, buyers can be notoriously ignorant. I frequently see items listed as “x ct gold” or “solid gold” when the stamps / markings clearly show the item is gold plated, or gold filled. Seeing images of jewellery stamps like 1/20 12K GF or 9ct SIL LND should (you think) be enough to inform a buyer but often these items sell as though they WERE solid gold. Does it matter? If the item is being bought to wear or as a gift, and the buyer is happy when they get it, then NO. If it is being bought to on-sell or as an investment, then YES – but really, who in this second category would buy such an item. If the item is mis-described, and clear photos are not shown, then if sold to a knowledgeable buyer it will be the subject of a return request.

As Kopes says – how would eBay know? They rely on the Return Process to iron out their problems for them, and eBay always sides with the buyer. I am always happy to refund on return – not happy to refund when buyer wants to keep item but really, what is my option? I am here for an uncomplicated time, not a stressful time.

With the HUGE number of fake, not to mention reproduction, items  flooding the market in many areas, I do feel sorry for (and admire) those honest sellers who continue to try and compete. However even at real life auctions, where people can see, handle and test the items, you will frequently see new “repros” selling for more than originals. Why? Because the “repros” are nice and clean and undamaged, while by their nature the originals can’t be. And the buyers don’t care – they want the look. So if people think they are buying an original, and are happy to pay the price, and are happy when they get the item in their hands, everyone is happy, right? (Especially eBay).  (And except of course for the honest seller who sold the reproduction correctly described).

[performance_parts_clearance_centre]

One of the bigger problems with petrol-related items is the huge number of "cinderella" items flooding the market.

(For those who don't know, "cinderella" is a term used by stamp collectors for an item whch wasn't offical, or fake).

I have a reasonable knowledge of petrol stuff, and the market has been saturated in recent years by items which never actually existed "back in the day" - everything from globes that sit atop petrol pumps, to bottle openers. 

To give Aussie petrol company Golden Fleece as an example, there are countless items for sale on eBay right now which never existed: stickers, decals, all manner of dreadful "period" signs that look nothing like anything that ever existed, and truly idiotic cast iron signs. There are even miniature "money box" versions of the ram that used to sit atop Golden Fleece petrol pumps.

Virtually none are listed as being recent, and some are listed as being "genuine" or "original" when they're just not. "Collectible" is the most common weasal word - doesn't mean it's old, or original. "Great condition for age" is one of the cheekier descriptions - yes, it IS in great shape for something that's about a month old...

Most of these are sold to people who have no idea that the item they're buying is something made recently, and not something that the petrol company in question ever used. Or, some bogan who reckons it'll look great in his "man-cave".

"Reproduction" items are a whole 'nother thing - most genuine collectors can spot a reproduction immediately, and won't bother. Those who just want the period look without the period price don't care - as in the OP's example. If the reproduction bottle is exact down to the Australian Glass Manfacturers hallmark, they're even harder to spot.

Some of the items are "aged", to make them look as though they're fifty or sixty years old, for the period "rustic" look. Collectors will know, average punters won't. Many sellers clearly list them as reproductions, just as many don't. Some sellers know, some genuinely don't.

eBay have no way of keeping on top of this. Just none. They'd need to employ someone like me - dozens, if not hundreds of people like me, in fact. Think of an antiques or collectibles discipline - philately, coins, furniture, china, dolls, clocks, books. Now assume that eBay would need an expert in every single one of those on staff to monitor listings. For some, they'd need a whole team of experts.

Just not workable...

[kopenhagen5]

Well said.

eBay have no way of keeping on top of this. Just none. They'd need to employ someone like me - dozens, if not hundreds of people like me, in fact. Think of an antiques or collectibles discipline - philately, coins, furniture, china, dolls, clocks, books. Now assume that eBay would need an expert in every single one of those on staff to monitor listings. For some, they'd need a whole team of experts.

Just not workable...

This is what I have been saying for years and we get so many coming to the forums saying why doesn't eBay remove all the fakes.

Online, it's not that simple and not possible. 

eBay can only make opening an account more difficult and shut down accounts found to be repeatedly selling fakes. Either due to feedback or multiple reporting from different members.

This is where eBay are lacking. Just not enough action on obvious scams n fakes.

[performance_parts_clearance_centre]

I'll go a tad further - they'd need a full team of experts in every country - a US petrol expert won't know much about Golden Fleece or Ampol, just as I don't know much about Phillips 66 or Gulf.

Here's one example:

Now, the actual description in the listing makes clear that it's a reproduction - several times, in fact. But, it's listed as "Used". Well, no. He's making them to order. 

And, it's dreadful. Nothing like any sign Amoco actually used. The Amoco logo used is the 1970's logo (and badly done, at that - looks hand-drawn; the thickness of the letters is uneven, the torch and flame are off-centre), while the red Amoco lettering is from the 1960's logo.

And Amoco's draw-card was "Final Filter" - not "Finer". 

Now, imagine that the seller wasn't being ethical and listing it as a reproduction - would you have been able to tell it wasn't a genuine old sign? No collector would ever be fooled by it, but your average punter might. Amoco disappeared in the early 1980s; there's an entire generation who have no idea what their stuff looked like.

That's the problem eBay have - in order to police the listings, they need knowledge which they don't have.

[enigmabear]

I assume you have been reporting all the ones you have proof of being fakes?

[imastawka]

An item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay.  Be it original or repro.

If they're not sure, or can't afford it, then they shouldn't bid IMO

Let's face it, even a vintage repro is going to be worth decent money in the future.

I've seen 70's repro Carnival Glass go for huge amounts, even when it was listed as 70's

[siddieswans]

eBay certainly does present a lot of ethical problems. Sigh. Of course Sellers should not be unscrupulous, but if a Buyer is uneducated, whose fault is that?

We are all aware of sellers maliciously reporting other sellers’ items, in order to promote their own. And vindictive false Feedback left by buyers who were trying to scam something extra out of their original purchase.

Even New and Used present problems. What if you sell something made in the 70's in unopened original packaging – is that New? Well it can’t be because it’s 40 years old. Pre-owned – often that option is not available. What about New Old Stock – that’s not even pre-owned, because presumably it never left the store / factory.

And there must always be allowance for the honest mistake. Few of us are experts in everything, and we are all human. Unfortunately with the adversarial atmosphere eBay has constructed within the Returns Process, even if you fall over backwards to placate and reimburse your buyer, you may be left Negative Feedback.

[bloodlust_03]

the listing in question, the seller has not lied, not decieved, simply says what it is and shows a pic, it's up to the buyer to ask questions. seller has done nothing wrong.