Alan Jones poll

[the*scarlet*pimpernel]

Alan Jones is vehemently opposed to the Shenhua Watermark coalmine which was given approval last week to go ahead.

The government announced the plam approval whilst Jones was out of the country and the east coast was distracted by State of Origin footy fever.

Please vote in the poll. I think it is open until 9am est.

http://www.2gb.com/poll/poll-shenhua-mine

thanks

[lind9650]

Monman 12, can you please explain to me what benefit Australia and Australian peole will have from a foreign company mining on our soil?

Erica

[icyfroth]

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@lind9650 wrote:

Monman 12, can you please explain to me what benefit Australia and Australian peole will have from a foreign company mining on our soil?

Erica

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Also Monno...do you perchance have shares in this mining outfit?

[monman12]

"Monman 12, can you please explain to me what benefit Australia and Australian peole will have from a foreign company mining on our soil?"

I could attempt to do so, but do not have the energy at the moment,   as I research my answers and those of others, and often have to prove that some statements are without foundation whatsoever e.g.  "No mine in Australian History has ever even attempted to rehabilitate the soil. It's unlikely this one will either."

If you actually are interested L9650 there is a feast of material "out there" try: ABS,  RBA,  Trading Economics, oh and of course Australia mining capital investment.  Or better still you tell me what your views are (backed by facts).

IF: "Also Monno...do you perchance have shares in this mining outfit?"    Are you really interested IF???

Why would I?   I would have to buy via my stockbroker a foreign stock (extra charges) from the HK exchange, it would be a poor investment,   and any return would not attract franking credits. I do doubt if that was a genuine question anyway !

If (?) you are interested, here is the share price history of my favourite bank (CBA) and  China Shenhua Energy Co Ltd1088:HK  (CBA is +)

 

[iapetus_rocks]

 If (?) you are interested, here is the share price history of my favourite bank (CBA) and  China Shenhua Energy Co Ltd1088:HK  (CBA is +

Well, if you are interested . . .

"The end of capitalism has begun

Without us noticing, we are entering the postcapitalist era. At the heart of further change to come is information technology, new ways of working and the sharing economy. The old ways will take a long while to disappear, but it’s time to be utopian."

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun

Read it and weep, you tax-avoiding leaner, you.

[icyfroth]

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@monman12 wrote:

"No mine in Australian History has ever even attempted to rehabilitate the soil. It's unlikely this one will either."

IF,  you clearly underwrite my assertion that one unresearched/flawed statement within a debate immediately demolishes the credibility of the whole argument within that debate, because your comment above is completely without foundation, WRONG !

Alcoa commenced mining bauxite  Jarrahdale WA  in 1963, and ceased in 1998 During that period, over 160 million tonnes of ore was mined. Rehabilitation carried on for another 3 years until 2001 when all mined areas, haul roads and building sites were completely rehabilitated.

                        

  Before                                        After                                                   Before                                         After

                                  .                                              

"Alcoa‘s mine rehabilitation has received international, national and state awards.  The most significant being listed on the United Nation's Environment Programme Global 500 Roll of Honour in 1990"

"No mine in Australian History has ever even attempted to rehabilitate the soil."  WRONG.   

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Thank you. That really does look like a fine rehabilitation job has been done.

Given the amount of mining that has been done in Australia, do you know of any others?

[lloydslights]

Not a mine as such, but a quarry that has been rehabilitated - info from Google (but it is the site of my forebears' granted land) 

Penrith Lakes

The western side of Cranebrook features the Penrith Lakes Scheme, a series of flooded quarries. The quarries were formed by a quarrying conglomerate in 1979. The site supplies around 75% of Sydney’s sand and crushed aggregate requirements, including about 85% of the materials for ready mixed concrete.

One of these lakes is the Sydney International Regatta Centre which hosted the rowing events of the Sydney 2000 Olympics. There is also the popular Penrith Whitewater Stadium which hosted whitewater slalomevents for the Sydney 2000 Olympics.

DEB

[monman12]

"Read it and weep, you tax-avoiding leaner, you."

I read it and chuckled,  probably because Mason, A former member of the Trotskyist Workers Power group,  has somewhat Marxist views. In fact, his approach  (dream) could be summed up with....."it’s time to be utopian".

Utopia: " an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect"

I imagine Mason's utopia is somewhat illusionary, and that of the mine protestors lacking in facts.

[gleee58]

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@monman12 wrote:

"Read it and weep, you tax-avoiding leaner, you."

I read it and chuckled,  probably because Mason, A former member of the Trotskyist Workers Power group,  has somewhat Marxist views. In fact, his approach  (dream) could be summed up with....."it’s time to be utopian".

Utopia: " an imagined place or state of things in which everything is perfect"

I imagine Mason's utopia is somewhat illusionary, and that of the mine protestors lacking in facts.

---

Where did you find the quote "it's time to be utopian"?

From wiki,

A former member of the Trotskyist Workers' Power group, he responded to an interviewer from the London Evening Standard in 2011: "It's on Wikipedia that I was, so it must be true. It's fair to say I was a Leftie activist. What my politics are now are very complicated."[12][13][14]

[colic2bullsgirlore]

The fish (well the ones that come out alive anyways) that come out of the Macleay River above Bellbrook glow in the dark.

http://saveourmacleayriver.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Flyer_Hillgrove-Antimony-Mine_Update-Ju...

The mining industry has done a great job over the last 130 years of rehabilitating the river so that it is a perfect purpose

built disposal point for tailings and heavy metals.....it's just there is now no room for the fish or agriculture or a little bit left

for human consumption....that's all.

Ther head of the Macleay river at Kempsey is 4 hours drive by car from Hillgrove.

The Oxley Wild Rivers National Park (OWRNP) was World Heritage listed in recognition of the extensive dry rainforest that occurs within the park, and the associated rich biodiversity that includes several rare or threatened plants and animals.

There are at least fourteen waterfalls in the park.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxley_Wild_Rivers_National_Park

and now thanks to the last 3 generations of miners there are glowing rocks fish, fungi and unexplainable deaths

of many species....get a look before it's gone. The antimoney miners are everywhere

[gleee58]

Found it.  So you pulled a couple of words from the title and completely missed the point.

Is it utopian to believe we’re on the verge of an evolution beyond capitalism? We live in a world in which gay men and women can marry, and in which contraception has, within the space of 50 years, made the average working-class woman freer than the craziest libertine of the Bloomsbury era. Why do we, then, find it so hard to imagine economic freedom?

It is the elites, cut off in their dark-limo world, whose project looks forlorn

It is the elites – cut off in their dark-limo world – whose project looks as forlorn as that of the millennial sects of the 19th century. The democracy of riot squads, corrupt politicians, magnate-controlled newspapers and the surveillance state looks as phoney and fragile as East Germany did 30 years ago.

All readings of human history have to allow for the possibility of a negative outcome. It haunts us in the zombie movie, the disaster movie, in the post-apocalytic wasteland of films such as The Road or Elysium. But why should we not form a picture of the ideal life, built out of abundant information, non-hierarchical work and the dissociation of work from wages?

Millions of people are beginning to realise they have been sold a dream at odds with what reality can deliver. Their response is anger – and retreat towards national forms of capitalism that can only tear the world apart. Watching these emerge, from the pro-Grexit left factions in Syriza to the Front National and the isolationism of the American right has been like watching the nightmares we had during the Lehman Brothers crisis come true.

We need more than just a bunch of utopian dreams and small-scale horizontal projects. We need a project based on reason, evidence and testable designs, that cuts with the grain of history and is sustainable by the planet. And we need to get on with it.

• Postcapitalism is published by Allen Lane on 30 July. Paul Mason will be asking whether capitalism has had its day at a sold-out Guardian Live event on 22 July. Let us know your thoughts beforehand at theguardian.com/membership.