COVID-19 vs Flu ... Oils ain't oils

[countessalmirena]

There is sometimes some confusion about whether COVID-19 is the same as 'flu. Is it just a type of 'flu? Is it a more virulent strain like the 'flu of 1918 (Spanish flu)? Can't we just treat it in the same way that we treat the 'flu?

There are similarities between COVID-19 and influenza

• They are both respiratory diseases.
• They are both contagious.
• They are both airborne (can be transmitted via tiny particles suspended in the air). Droplet (close contact infection from larger sized particles) or fomite transmission (from surfaces) is also common to both.
• They can both result in pneumonia which complicates the patient's outcome.
• Those infected can be asymptomatic (no symptoms), have mild symptoms, have moderate symptoms, or have severe symptoms. Some patients will die.
• People infected with either COVID-19 or 'flu can transmit the disease while asymptomatic, hence they may never know that they have passed on a disease to others.
• Symptoms of COVID-19 and influenza can be similar, but loss of taste or smell is far more likely to occur with COVID-19 than with 'flu.

CAN COVID-19 be diagnosed by symptoms?

Neither 'flu nor COVID-19 can be diagnosed from the symptoms experienced by the patient, although previously, unless it was clinically necessary, GPs may have diagnosed 'flu based upon sympoms. (That's less likely to happen now with the risk of COVID-19.) A diagnostic test (PCR) is the most accurate way to test for either 'flu or COVID-19, and there's even a est (multiplex assay) that can test for influenza A, influenza B or COVID-19 at one and the same time.

REDUCING RISKS is the same for both diseases

• Hand hygiene
• Cough etiquette (cough into crook of elbow, not into hands)
• Social distancing
• Air filtering/purifying/ventilation
• Mask wearing (ensure no gaps)
• Avoid touching face or adjusting mask
• Quarantine and isolation where required

VIRUS THAT CAUSE COVID-19 vs VIRUSES THAT CAUSE 'FLU

These two diseases are not caused by the same viruses. COVID-19 is not a type of 'flu.

Coronavirus

SARS-CoV-2, the virus which causes COVID-19, is a coronavirus (spherical, with a lipid (fat) layer, and their surface is studded with protein spikes) which is a positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus. It enters human cells primarily by binding to an enzyme called ACE2. Other coronaviruses include that which causes SARS, that which causes MERS, and those which are part of a range of different viruses that cause the common cold.

SARS-CoV-2 is identified as being a strain of the virus that causes SARS, based upon conserved sequences of nucleic acids. This does not mean that SARS-CoV-2 is a mutation of the SARS virus; these two made the jump from bat-reservoir to humans separately.

SARS is considered to be eradicated in terms of human-to-human transmission, primarily because containment measures were very effective. Patients with SARS were most infectious if they were severely ill, and in the second week of their infection (while their symptoms were severe). There were 774 confirmed deaths due to SARS. Now, because the last outbreak of SARS was years ago, it ceased to be a global priority. No effective antiviral treatments currently exist, and work on a vaccine stalled because of lack of funding years ago. However, that early work was pivotal in driving vaccine development for SARS-CoV-2; without that groundwork, we might still be waiting for a COVID-19 vaccine. This highlights just how important it is for funding to be readily available.

This contrasts with how easily SARS-CoV-2 is spread - in particular with the Delta variant being transmissible within as early as 1-2 days of exposure, and while the person is asymptomatic.

MERS is more deadly than SARS-CoV-2, but nowhere near as easily transmitted. Direct or indirect contact with camels is the most likely route for infection; human-to-human transmission can occur, but it requires close contact, and there's no evidence of asymptomatic transmission. There have been 885 confirmed deaths due to MERS. There's no current effective treatment, but several vaccines are in clinical trials. It is not considered a priority risk to the global population.

Influenzavirus

But when we come to influenza, it's caused by negative-sense, single-stranded, segmented RNA viruses that use glycoproteins as their break-and-entry method into cells. There are four types of influenza: influenza A virus (the most virulent - i.e., deadly - human flu virus, and the one that's responsible for human epidemics/pandemics), influenza B virus (slower to mutate and doesn't cause pandemics, but can still cause deaths globally), influenza C (usually only causes mild disease in children), and influenza D (not known to cause infections in humans).

Quadrivalent 'flu vaccines are highly effective in preventing infection by either of the known circulating influenza B virus lineages, and in fact it is possible that the hygiene/containment measures against COVID-19 have actually eliminated one of those two lineages. There still remains the B/Victoria/2/87 lineage, and the current 'flu vaccine remains effective against that.

By far the most dangerous 'flu virus for us is influenza A. The current 'flu vaccine is effective against the circulating strains (H1N1 and H3N2). The 'flu vaccine must be regularly updated with newly emerging seed strains, as influenza A mutates rapidly. If a new and deadlier strain that could be transmitted human-to-human were to emerge - say, of H5N1 - there would be a timelag before it could be identified and a  vaccine developed against that specific strain. In that event, the number of deaths would be high.

"Just" the 'flu?

Let's not minimise the effect of the 'flu upon humans. We see annual deaths of seasonal 'flu, mostly among the unvaccinated and the vulnerable, in the order of ~300,000 globally. Better hygiene measures and an end to the "soldier on" attitude when one has 'flu symptoms does see this number go down dramatically, as evidenced by the 2020/2021 'flu season results.

However, when virulent and highly contagious new strains seed in the wild, there arises a pandemic risk. When we see 'flu pandemics, they are not something to be sneezed at (excuse the pun). They have been deadly and catastrophic. We haven't defeated the 'flu, and living with the 'flu means constant vigilance by the CDC to identify new strains, and using those strains as attenuated versions for use in the updated quadrivalent vaccine for the upcoming season.

Without that ongoing work, the world as it is could not continue to function.

When I hear people comparing the 'flu with COVID-19, they are talking about the 'flu as it is now - that is, under strong control, with high immunity levels in the community due to many people having regular 'flu shots, and those shots being regularly updated with the strains out in the wild. Natural immunity to 'flu lineages doesn't last a lifetime, not even for influenza B, and certainly not for influenza A.

We should not trivialise 'flu. New 'flu pandemics are epidemiologically sure to arise, and they will kill and cause chaos.

But at the moment, we're in the COVID-19 pandemic. COVID-19 has Reff of 8 (Delta variant), and that's higher than the Reff of the 'flu strains that have caused pandemics. Thank God we have developed effective vaccines and that vaccine development is continuing. Thank God we've got oral drug treatments already in line for approval. We'll only get on top of this by global vaccination and in addition by making sure that drug treatments are made available. Vaccination is even more important against COVID-19 than it is against 'flu - but we can't do without either.

Discussion welcome.

[springyzone]

What a helpful article.

I think what you wrote is very true-that people who talk of the flu are viewing it as it is now-under fairly tight control. Not everyone gets vaccinated but there is a coordinated effort every year to contain the curent flu types and enough of tyhe vulnerable do get vaccinated to make it less of a risk than it might be otherwise.

I honestly believe that because so many diseases are under control now, that people can tend to downplay their effect because they have never seen them, never experienced the fear.

TB, polio, diptheria, they're killers.

One thing that springs to my mind when I think of this covid pandemic is of how attitudes were back in March 2020.

examples:

*My girls both had a cruise cancelled and were offered a deal by the cruise company-refund or else cancel with a clause to rebook another cruise within 12 months, leaving the money with the cruise company & getting a very good bonus added to the money. They chose refund. But it is telling, isn't it, that the cruise company fully expected to be up and running again within a month or two and was encouraging people to rebook for eg July-Oct 2020. 

* My sister had an April 2020 holiday to Thailand/Vietnam I think it was, cancelled. But one Thailand leg of the holiday would not refund, only change the booking date, which was rescheduled to July.

* In March 2020 I went into a Pandora store to buy a 21st present.  It was before lockdown but we knew it was probably coming. The girl behind the counter commented that she was getting married in October and was pretty sure things would be back to normal by then, surely. I very nearly replied why? The Spanish flu took 3 years. And there was no vaccine against covid at that time so why expect a much different time line.

But I held my tongue.

We've become very much an 'instant' society, I think. There's a bit of contempt for the past, we expect medicine has come so far now that the old diseases and fears are no longer valid. Partially true perhaps but as we are seeing, we are still vulnerable and it won't always be fixed overnight.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Your story reminds me of my own travel saga. My daughter and I (both from WA) booked a trip to Sydney for July last year - flying over and returning on  the Indian Pacific. When we had to cancel we were given the option of rebooking so we rebooked for November. When that didn’t happen we tried again for November this year. Now we have our fingers crossed for March 2022 

[not_for_sale2025]

Making comparisons between the Flu and Covid-19 based upon quantitative data is interesting, but of limited value if not considered in context. Certainly the Spanish Flu killed around 50 million people, but a lot of progress has been made during the 100+ years since that outbreak, both in terms of medical prevention and treatment. There was no vaccine for the Spanish Flu and the treatments were not all that helpful.

Covid-19 has struck at a unique time where the internet and social media allows many voices to influence us. What it all narrows down to is which voices we choose to listen to. We have a choice. Personally, I am suspicious about the personalities, motives and hidden agendas of those who are trying to sway us against the Government and their response to the pandemic.

I do understand the apprehensions about the long-term side effects of the vaccines. But I wonder if people’s worries are based upon Hollywood fiction or fantastic suggestions that something grotesque might happen to us. I choose to place my faith in medical science and pay attention to their advice. After all, they have done pretty well since the Spanish Flu. But each to their own I guess.

[countessalmirena]

Today a little girl died of COVID-19.

She was younger than 10. She was in Victoria. She had co-morbidities which put her at grave risk of a bad outcome if she caught COVID-19... but she caught it anyway.

There is no further information about this death released publicly at this stage.

Obviously she was not vaccinated, as children under 12 cannot be vaccinated under the current rules. How she caught COVID-19 has not been made public.

It is heartbreaking to know that a child has become one of the latest victims of this disease. Whatever this child's other health conditions, she had family who loved her. The health team who looked after her would have tried everything, every possible remedy, to save this child. COVID-19 is a beast... It's been said before. Everything possible is being thrown at this monstrous disease, and although medications are being developed and trialled and approved as fast as possible (but still as safely as possible), and even though Australia's vaccination rate is going well, we're still below the level at which we would achieve herd immunity.

I saw footage of some of the signs carried by protestors at yesterday's protests. These signs are carried by people that I believe are mostly sincere individuals, worried and afraid (and because of that, they are angry and confrontational). Some of them are intelligent people, and some are not. Yet even the intelligent people are not trusting data, and in some cases are not thinking logically. Oh, God, they're definitely not thinking logically.

Well, I suppose if we are honest, none of us will always trust data (on the basis of believing the source to be corrupted, or the transmission of it to be corrupted), and none of us will always think logically. We all have our personal beliefs that might fly in the face of what is commonly accepted.

Yet my heart and mind almost collapse in bewildered horror at the sort of sign that says "MY BODY HEALS ITSELF".

The body is a miracle of workmanship; our bodies can handle a lot of repair work. But we're not the Highlander and there are many conditions and injuries which our bodies cannot heal - conditions which are not self-limiting and for which medical intervention is necessary.

I wish with all my  heart that the child who died had been able to benefit from medical intervention. With the best will in the world, and among the highest standard of medical care in the world, and the most current knowledge of how to treat COVID-19, it just wasn't enough.

I can't say it strongly enough. We need to be vaccinated if we can be vaccinated. Children can and do die from COVID-19 - not many in the overall scheme of things, not often, but sometimes. If we had indeed reached herd immunity, that child would almost certainly not have caught COVID-19 and would be alive. Let's hope that we can reach that goal. I don't know if we can; I'll admit that frankly.

[springyzone · Accepted solution]

That comment, "My body heals itself' is pretty scary, isn't it.

Probably because it is a half truth.

Even with the vaccine, it is your immune system that protects you from the virus. The vaccine is triggering that response, for your body to develop the antibodies.

And of course our own bodies often allow us to recover naturally from colds, flu, chicken pox etc

But not always. The implication of such a placard, that no medical intervention is needed because a person's own body will do all the healing, is pretty extreme. I can't imagine that anyone other than someone from the 21st century would ever believe it. That's because we've been cosseted, we live in a country with overall excellent access to health care and good living standards. We don't see death as close up as our ancestors were forced to.

My family history is absolutely littered with people and children from the past who died in their prime. Diptheria, TB, pneumonia, you name it. So much for their bodies healing themselves. Not just the occasional person either. These were otherwise healthy people. Sometimes almost half the children died within their first decade. Adults commonly dead by 50.

Our bodies are not somehow miraculously improved on the 19th century models. It's medical intervention and better living standards that has caused most of those activisits to believe they are invincible.

[janeababe]

@springy….

BEST POST EVER! 

Absolutely spot on! 

[rogespeed]

and both can induce untimely deaths enmass - one is called a pandemic and the other ' que sera sera " 

[rogespeed]

The enemy in full colour

https://www.microscopeworld.com/p-4317-covid-19-under-the-microscope.aspx

[myoclon1cjerk]

Some info on the new South African variant which has experts worried.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2021/11/26/covid-variant-south-africa/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium...