@icyfroth wrote:It seems for some, perennial outrage is a stimulus, 4channel.
Finally you've stated the very thing the two of you are so very good at and shows the reasoning behind the dragging up of old threads just to satisfy that need to bring that outrage back to the top.
4channel, from both the thread's subject and the contents of the opening post, in my view the mention of vaccinations and 5G was tangential to the main thrust of the post.
Protesters gathered at the Royal Botanic Gardens in Melbourne on Saturday and claimed the global COVID-19 health crisis was a 'scam'.
That seems to be the main point of the post.
Hundreds of demonstrators across Australia have broken social distancing rules to protest against vaccinations, 5G and the coronavirus pandemic.[..]
Brazen demonstrators also carried signs declaring they were against vaccines and 5G technology.
The element of the protest which also weighed in on vaccinations and 5G seems to be the secondary point of the post.
I don't debate these sorts of things as a general rule. When someone has an entrenched view that is anti-establishment and makes claims about wide-reaching conspiracies, that someone has pretty much set their position like concrete, and will not shift. Engaging with people who have a fervent belief of this nature is likely merely to solidify their belief, as part of the process of confirmation bias.
It's not that I think there are no conspiracies at all, or that conspiracies by governments are neither likely nor possible. It's not that I don't believe that there are instances of major companies hiding information from the public. Demonstrably we know that such things have happened.
However, I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories where the nature of the conspiracy is contrary to scientific evidence. (Even trying to debate this with some people would lead to a merry-go-round of conspiracy horses... as in, "Oh, but the scientific evidence has been faked", or "The scientists are lying to us", when these statements do not hold up because the scientific methodology or the actual data is available to check.)
Merely because I say to you now that vaccinations as a rule go through rigorous testing so that they are established to be safe to use on the very great majority of people, and they must be taken up by the very great majority of people in a population so that those for whom such vaccines are either not safe or not effective can be protected against the diseases for which a specific vaccine innoculates - merely because I say that, and say that individuals who have become enmeshed in the anti-vaccination movement (masquerading under pro-vax-choice to make it sound better) behave selfishly by refusing vaccination does not mean that you (for instance) would listen to my argument and give it any consideration. On the contrary, people with a firm view against my position will dig in their heels.
(My position is that the population for whom vaccinations are both safe and effective must be vaccinated, to provide protection for those relatively few who would otherwise be vulnerable to the various diseases caused by a number of quite nasty pathogens. To fail to do this on the grounds of "I don't want a vaccine to enter my body" is a position I do find selfish. To refuse a vaccination on sound medical grounds is another thing entirely.)
Similarly, if I were to say to you that there is nothing about the radiofrequency radiation associated with 5G which comes even close to exceeding safe exposure limits, and if I were to give you a link which examines not only the question of the technology and safe limits but also why on earth the whole question of 5G has become the hot touch-point of conspiracy theories throughout the western world, it does not mean you'd pay any attention to the link, to the suggestions, or to the possibility that there may actually be a real conspiracy going on under your nose but concerning which you are oblivious.
The link is here 
Re fluoridation... it wasn't mentioned in the opening post, but I can see that it might fit in as one of the tangential points, given that - like anti-vaccination and 5G - it's one of those passionately-held conspiracy theories which has its believers up in arms and committed to marching in protest in a similar way as that taken up in protest marches against COVID-19, vaccination and 5G.
The race for a vaccine against COVID-19 demonstrates - in my opinion - the best of human nature. Companies around the world are co-operating, pledging to share data and information so that companies can manufacture the huge required volumes of vaccine once at least one (and probably quite a few more than one) has been approved. That excites me; it's based on the idea that we who are humans are brothers and sisters. That sort of co-operation is unfortunately all too rare.
Re protest marches for ANY cause right now... I could not be more against them if I tried.
The risk is too great. This disease is highly contagious, and the average Australian does not know how to use PPE correctly in order to minimise the risks of large gatherings. (We know that even professionals trained in infection control may make errors when donning or doffing PPE. It's unbelievably hard for people to avoid touching their face while wearing a mask, or to remember to remove gloves safely, and not to touch a surface where they may have rested a gloved hand momentarily, and so on. I have seen this personally.)
When protest marchers talk blithely about everyone wearing a mask, I scoff. I don't even do that politely any more. I scoff loudly and with frustration. How many of the masks are properly fitted? How many are properly covering the nose? How many are gaping at the side? How many have sanitised their hands appropriately before they donned their single-use mask, and every time they touched their mask? How many sanitise their hands before they removed their mask? How many disposed of the mask in the correct manner? How many avoided touching anything after mask removal, and sanitised their hands after removing and disposing of the mask? How many went to a protest march while suffering with just a little headache or with a few sniffles? ("Oh, it's probably just a bit of a cold. Don't be so fussy"...)
I have a very personal reason for being upset and frustrated by people's continued refusal to be sufficiently careful in Melbourne in particular right now. It's not too much to say that the continued (necessary) restrictions led to something that I will never be able to remember without the sharp dagger of loss stabbing me.
This post is already far too long...
@countessalmirena wrote:4channel, from both the thread's subject and the contents of the opening post, in my view the mention of vaccinations and 5G was tangential to the main thrust of the post.
This post is already far too long...
Yep. Can you condense it for someone like me who doesn't have the time? 
