Charles Darwin believed in a Creator?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

I have just finished reading Origin of The Species. As far as I can see there is nothing that Darwin says that denies a Creator - in fact his last sentence enforces Creation. I agree with his ideas on natural selection etc and that original creation did not involve the thousands of species that we now have.

"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. 

** NB depending on the definition of 'few'. 

[k0llectable5]

Good one Joz, way to put a spanner in the works 😛

Thats an unanswerable question though isn't it? 

My question is do you believe in the soul?

[ufo_investigations]

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@joz*garage wrote:

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

When God created the heavens and the earth. Remember he created the HEAVENS. This means not just humans here but humans and other beings on other planets. We are not ALONE!!!! 🙂

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who created god?

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God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

God simply existed always, eternal.

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

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@joz*garage wrote:

---

@ufo_investigations wrote:

When God created the heavens and the earth. Remember he created the HEAVENS. This means not just humans here but humans and other beings on other planets. We are not ALONE!!!! 🙂

---

who created god?

---

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

God simply existed always, eternal.

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Why do you say "since He exists etc". Do you believe that God is some kind of superhuman entity with a specific gender?

And why do you assume that our universe which came into existence  ~13.8 billion years ago is the only one that has ever existed?

[ufo_investigations]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

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@joz*garage wrote:

---

@ufo_investigations wrote:

When God created the heavens and the earth. Remember he created the HEAVENS. This means not just humans here but humans and other beings on other planets. We are not ALONE!!!! 🙂

---

who created god?

---

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

God simply existed always, eternal.

---

Why do you say "since He exists etc". Do you believe that God is some kind of superhuman entity with a specific gender?

And why do you assume that our universe which came into existence  ~13.8 billion years ago is the only one that has ever existed?

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No it aint the only one ever because of the multiple dimensions of time, it is forever eternal. God is mighty powerful. The 13.8 billion years is not what I believe the scientists think that. I think this earth is far older than that.

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

It's all a matter of the definition of evolution really. I believe that things evolve (as in change) over time to suit environment - eg skin colours etc but I certainly do not believe that one animal can bare another.

How do you explain the virtually identical skeletal structures of birds and dinosaur species?

And the man-from-ape theory has long been disabused, it is now pretty common knowledge that man and ape descended from a common ancestor........

[the_bob_delusion]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@secondhand-wonderland wrote:

Dont be sorry rabbitear, I too never recall discussing Darwins ideology on here and I find it a fascinating topic.  I havent read the origin of species from cover to cover but I did use it as reference in year 11 Biology (coupla years ago now lol)  

I guess some of the first well known scientists were Christian and beleived in the creator.  Copernicus, Kepler, Bacon, Galileo ect 

I'm not convinced about evolution.  Natural selection is undeniable.  I'm just not all that sure if the Oos is dead set proof that evolution exists (as in one species turning into another species by way of natural selection/evolution) things change and adapt to their environments for sure, but I'm not into the man from apes theory at all.

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No, me neither.  I believe in Creation / The Bible but do not believe that the 7 'days' were literal days, as we have discussed on here several times. Just have a look at Bob's earlier questions on Bible Topics.

It's all a matter of the definition of evolution really. I believe that things evolve (as in change) over time to suit environment - eg skin colours etc but I certainly do not believe that one animal can bare another. You can certainly breed in / out characteristics in a dog's offspring,  but, no matter how long you breed dogs and how you cross them you are never going to get anything other than a dog as an offspring. We have had this type of discussion MANY times on here - I think BOB has selective memory.

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We've discussed evolution many times but never ever talked about whether Darwin himself believed in a creator which is what OP was asking. One animal can bare another is not evolution. Unless people actually understood it no wonder they don't believe it. 

When you say the bible were not literal days what exactly do you mean? Do you mean it's just a made up story?

[the_bob_delusion]

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

---

@joz*garage wrote:

---

@ufo_investigations wrote:

When God created the heavens and the earth. Remember he created the HEAVENS. This means not just humans here but humans and other beings on other planets. We are not ALONE!!!! 🙂

---

who created god?

---

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

God simply existed always, eternal.

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Scientist have many hypothesis on how the universe came to be and none of them involves a God. 

Religious people would also say that God cannot be confirmed experimentally? However it is possible that the theory of the multiverse CAN be falsified. That's the difference. 

The moment you say that this universe is too complex and too intelligent to have existed you automatically implied that same premise to God. 

[the_bob_delusion]

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@ufo_investigations wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

---

@ufo_investigations wrote:

---

@joz*garage wrote:

---

@ufo_investigations wrote:

When God created the heavens and the earth. Remember he created the HEAVENS. This means not just humans here but humans and other beings on other planets. We are not ALONE!!!! 🙂

---

who created god?

---

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). Hence God is eternal, having never been created. Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.8 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).

God simply existed always, eternal.

---

Why do you say "since He exists etc". Do you believe that God is some kind of superhuman entity with a specific gender?

And why do you assume that our universe which came into existence  ~13.8 billion years ago is the only one that has ever existed?

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No it aint the only one ever because of the multiple dimensions of time, it is forever eternal. God is mighty powerful. The 13.8 billion years is not what I believe the scientists think that. I think this earth is far older than that.

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You can't just keep asserting stuft with no thread of evidence. Scientist don't just make up stuft. They base it on the best evidence available. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

So many questions. where do I start?

Yes, I've heard of Kent Hovind - I don't believe the young earth stuff.

secondhand - sorry, no spanner in works. If you are asking the question of me, then No, I don't believe in the immortal soul - that, along with trinity, hellfire were invented by the Roman's who wished to placate all 'religions' in the countries under their control. So, they took PAGAN beliefs and encorporated them into Christianity - eg Christman, Easter etc. - but, everyone knows that.

she-ele - Forgive me dear, but that's an old one and, if you don't mind me saying is irrelivant. There is no gender in the Spiritual realm. The fact that God is referred to as 'He' is a term of reference only unless, of course you use 'It' which would be a trifle disrespectful, don't you think.

this-one-time -
You asked: How do you explain the virtually identical skeletal structures of birds and dinosaur species?
Why wouldn't there be similarities? After all, Same designer.

You stated: And the man-from-ape theory has long been disabused, it is now pretty common knowledge that man and ape descended from a common ancestor.
- No, not common knowledge more like common theory - see my response to your question re skeletal similarities.

Bob - during our many discussions on evolution, you, among others, challenged me to 'Open my Eyes'and 'read Darwin' - I did - it hasn't changed anything about my beliefs.

Re: Something from nothing - Scientifically then, where did the universe come from - Science refers to it as the 'Big Bang' - I prefer to call it Controlled Creation - something from nothing - you believe that the big bang happened so why not that it was a controlled / designed process??

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

You asked: How do you explain the virtually identical skeletal structures of birds and dinosaur species?
Why wouldn't there be similarities? After all, Same designer.

Then how do you explain the utter difference with hominids and marsupials?  Why wouldn't the same designer design them all the same?

No, not common knowledge more like common theory - see my response to your question re skeletal similarities.

It's much more than skeletal similarities.........organ placement, brains, and dna similarities give credence to the evolution of man, much more than some work of fiction that proposes all men are descended from a mated pair.