Dawkins on Down Syndrome foetus: "Abort and Try again"

[the_bob_delusion]

“Abort it and try again. It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice,” -Dawkins.

Discuss. 

[the_bob_delusion]

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@isgodnu wrote:

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@**what_would_bob_do** wrote:

So which part of it was her fault?

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Neither. Which part was the baby's fault?

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WHat's the definition of a baby?

[isgodnu]

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@polksaladallie wrote:

Rubbish.

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Is that what they do with it?

[isgodnu]

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@**what_would_bob_do** wrote:

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Is killing always wrong? And also be deserving of punishment?

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No. Is having a child now considered a punishment?

[k0llectable5]

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@**what_would_bob_do** wrote:

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@isgodnu wrote:

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@**what_would_bob_do** wrote:

So what's worst; never being born or being born and be neglected and essentially abused? 

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So essentially you are claiming that parents who do not believe in abortion are necessarily abusive?

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Actually, it's a hypothetical, you have to choose one. 

Let's just throw a spanner in the works. What about aborting a perfectly healthy baby then?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/18/ireland-woman-forced-caesarean-pregnant-rape-friend

A young woman forced to give birth by caesarean section after being denied an abortion in Ireland became pregnant after she was raped. The woman, who cannot be named, was refused an abortion when she demanded a termination at eight weeks, saying she was suicidal. She discovered she was pregnant a few weeks after arriving in Ireland this year and told her friends: "I do not want this. I am too young to be a mother. I am not ready."

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I personally think this is fair justification for abortion.  Why should a woman who has been violated then have to be a mother to a child that 1. She feels too young to be a mother 2. She doesn't want the baby 3. If she was to have it, every day it would be a reminder of what she went through being raped 4. If she did have it she may even have to associate with the father.  This is a person who raped her why would she ever want to see this foul person ever again?  How would you explain to the child as it gets older who it's real father is?  

Healthy baby or not this is one I can totally understand...

[***super_nova***]

What I find interesting is that the people who how most against abortion are also against any help that single woman might need to bring child up on her own. 

At  least here women do have a real choice, single mums get support, and are not forced by their circumstances into having abortion. 

There are too many people in the world anyway, why create more?  Nobody has the right to tell woman that she has to have a child she is not capable of supporting - be it because she is too young, or because the child is going to require care that she, for whatever reason, would not be able to give.

[k0llectable5]

There are too many people in the world anyway, why create more?

I agree with most of your post apart from this one line.  Where do you get the idea that there is too many people in the world? I for one dont buy that for a minute.  Maybe some cities are becoming over populated but as for there being too many people on the planet, sorry but thats just not true imo.

[lealta]

You are right Lealta, it is a personal decision but what about a promiscuous 20yr old girl "accidentally" falling pregnant or a young couple that know the consequences of unprotected sex "accidentally" falling pregnant having abortions.  Is it the same as aborting because tests have shown a high chance of DS or other serious birth defects, do you think?

I am 100% pro choice, so in my opinion, if a woman is in the first trimester of her pregnancy, then she should be able to abort, no matter what her reason is...I don't care if she's promiscuous or if she accidently gets pregnant.  And anyway, who are we to determine what constitutes promiscous behavior anyway?  Is it having sex before you are married, with one man?  Is it having sex before you are married with two, three or four men?  Just like it's not my business to tell a woman whether she can or should have an abortion, it's also not my place to judge her for her choices.  One person's morality is not the same as another person's.  I don't go to church and don't want someone judging me as being immoral because I don't.  Unfortunately, some do.  But at least they can't force me to go to church.

[lealta]

What I meant was that there are dozens of different deformities in unborn babies, most of which are terminated.  Where is the line drawn?  Which deformity is "acceptable" and which is not?  And does the parent know everything before she/he is advised to terminate?  Why is DS acceptable and the others not?

Once again..it is up to the woman to draw the line.  It is up to her to decide where that line is.

[***super_nova***]

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@secondhand-wonderland wrote:

There are too many people in the world anyway, why create more?

I agree with most of your post apart from this one line.  Where do you get the idea that there is too many people in the world? I for one dont buy that for a minute.  Maybe some cities are becoming over populated but as for there being too many people on the planet, sorry but thats just not true imo.

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We cannot even feed properly the people who are here.  So many people in the world do not have access to clean drinking water.  How many more people do you think Australia can take?  Yes, we have lot of space  but  not enough water or arable land.  The way human race is multiplying is unsustainable.

[k0llectable5]

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@lealta wrote:

You are right Lealta, it is a personal decision but what about a promiscuous 20yr old girl "accidentally" falling pregnant or a young couple that know the consequences of unprotected sex "accidentally" falling pregnant having abortions.  Is it the same as aborting because tests have shown a high chance of DS or other serious birth defects, do you think?

I am 100% pro choice, so in my opinion, if a woman is in the first trimester of her pregnancy, then she should be able to abort, no matter what her reason is...I don't care if she's promiscuous or if she accidently gets pregnant.  And anyway, who are we to determine what constitutes promiscous behavior anyway?  Is it having sex before you are married, with one man?  Is it having sex before you are married with two, three or four men?  Just like it's not my business to tell a woman whether she can or should have an abortion, it's also not my place to judge her for her choices.  One person's morality is not the same as another person's.  I don't go to church and don't want someone judging me as being immoral because I don't.  Unfortunately, some do.  But at least they can't force me to go to church.

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I would say promiscuous is someone who has had sex with several different guys in a short space of time and then fallen pregnant and so cant be sure who the father would be.  So being 100% pro choice how many abortions is it okay for someone like this to have? 

I always thought morality was a fairly universal thing. It's knowing how to desipher the differences between right and wrong.  It's not subjective and has little, if anyting at all to do with going to church ect.