Electing a new Pope

Can we vote for Julia ? she seems to think she is G almighty.


Keep it nice, I might cry if you write anything upsetting (like not)
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Electing a new Pope

**meep**
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Eve .... "After Baptism.  So what happens before then?  For the first 30  yrs of their lives?"


 


Baptism doesn't have to wait for 30 years and you know it;-). An adult is a person capable of making HIS/HER own decision as to what Church / Organisation they wish to belong to / BE BAPTISED INTO ....  A BABY IS NOT.



 


 


I know it but I am referring to specific beliefs of my friend.  They are adults for a long time before they get baptised, they claim to live their lives according to the Bible so how do they live it according to the  Bible before they get baptised? 


 


 


As far as baptising babies, I don't have a problem with that either.  Naturally, parents want their children to belong to the Church. Its their responsibility.  

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Electing a new Pope

**meep**
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Personally, I don't think it's acceptable to abuse or sexually abuse anyone ...


 


 


There is no excuse.  None.  Of course, offenders will try to justify it. 

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Electing a new Pope

Az, I went to see a marriage guidance counsellor about an impotent partner in the past.  She had not experienced impotence as a problem in either her work or personal life and dismissed my concerns about the subject as trivial or irrelevant.  She later admitted that she had probably made our relationship problems worse than they were before we saw her.  So, yes, I think experience (and empathy) are important. 


 


 


 


 

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Electing a new Pope

Generally when I have a theory about Bible or Christian history related issues, I run it past one or more of my favorite Bible scholars, most of whom are remarkably accessible over the internet via email or Facebook, and are happy to answer questions. The following theory of mine I have not done that with, but I still think it's correct.


 


The question I always wonder about is "When did this pedophilia phenomenon begin in the Catholic church? Is it a recent development? How far back does it go?


 


My theory is that is goes ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING.


 


In New Testament times, the Roman world had no concept of "homosexuality". They didn't think of sexuality the way we do today. In the Roman world, pederasty was the norm!


 


Pederasty, of course, in sex between a man and a boy. HERE is the Wiki page on it, including some info on Greek and Roman pederasty. I know it seems hard for us to believe in our day, but to them man/boy sex, under certain conditions, was widely accepted and practiced.


 


The Christian church began as a mostly Jewish-Christian phenomena, but over a period of just a few decades the gentile (Roman) converts far outnumbered the Jewish ones. These new converts would have been used to practicing pederasty, and many probably carried it with them into the Christian practice. As the church became Catholic and celibacy became mandatory, it seems reasonable to suppose that some in the priesthood would resort to pederasty to get their physical needs met, justifying it in a variety of ways.


 


There is a very old book that almost made it into the New Testament, but didn't quite make the cut. It's called the Didache, probably written earlier than some of the books that DID make it into the canon. The Didache contains an interesting prohibition:


 


Didache 2:2: ...thou shalt not corrupt young boys [literally "though shalt not commit pederasty"]


 


I find it amazing that even back then, this was a problem. Now of course, Catholic apologists are quick to point out that this is a prohibition, not a approval of the practice, and that is true. But most prohibitions only arise in situations where there is a problem requiring such a prohibition. And there are many instances of pederasty within the Catholic church throughout the centuries going all the way back, despite repeated official prohibitions. There has always been a wide gap between what Catholicism teaches and what Catholics actually practice. As an example, every Catholic wedding I've ever been to ends up being a huge drinking fest, with even the priest partaking! You don't see that in evangelical weddings.


 


I think pedophilia in the Catholic church has it's roots in ancient pederasty, and somehow that Catholic priestly subculture never died out.

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G&M ... what's wrong with drinking at Catholic weddings? It is certainly condoned in the Bible.  And, yeah, sure priests drink ... I used to see our Father P often buying his daily bottle of Scotch ... 


 


 

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Electing a new Pope

Eve: "I know it but I am referring to specific beliefs of my friend.  They are adults for a long time before they get baptised, they claim to live their lives according to the Bible so how do they live it according to the  Bible before they get baptised? 


  


As far as baptising babies, I don't have a problem with that either.  Naturally, parents want their children to belong to the Church. Its their responsibility. "


 


Well, quite apart from anything else, would you promise your daughter as a small baby/child to marry a certain man? ie Arranged marriage? No, I don't think do. Sorry, but I see no difference.


 


 


 

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Electing a new Pope

**meep**
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It will come as no surprise to you Gods that I disagree with you.  I can clearly see the Church's justification for celibacy of the clergy:


 


I can see the justification, but I can also see the other side/s.  Often priests hear confession, or just talk to parishioners about their problems, including things like infidelity of spouses, domestic abuse, problems with children, marriage breakdowns, separation, divorce, remarrying.  I've always felt it must be difficult to provide advice with no actual knowledge of what it is like to be married or be a father.  It also means that they don't (often) understand the problems of women in the workforce, or women and politics ... I think being able to marry would open up a whole new dimension for priests.  


 


It would also "normalise" their lives.  Except for a few people, I don't believe celibacy is healthy.


 


I've read a bit about how heterosexuals act in prison ... is there a possibility that priests are attracted to boys because it is MORE FORBIDDEN to engage with women?  Some Australian Catholic priest said something along those lines recently.  


 


Having grown up in the UK as a Catholic, I found that the CoE vicars seemed to be a bit more "human" ... spending a life being celibate must take a lot of concentration ... 


 


 


 


 



 


 


Hmmm..... but as Az said, what about  psychologists?  Marriage councillors who are not married?


 


 


And yes,  as I said earlier I can also see both sides of the argument and who knows, maybe the change will come. 


 


I cant see the Church changing its stance on other issues such as abortion.


 


 

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**meep**
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As an example, every Catholic wedding I've ever been to ends up being a huge drinking fest, with even the priest partaking! You don't see that in evangelical weddings.


 


 



Growing up in Poland and being a Catholic, is there any other way to celebrate at weddings :O:O:O

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I have never heard of any Catholic wedding that has forbidden alcohol .... unless the venue doesn't allow it....or the family don't want it.

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Electing a new Pope


Az, I went to see a marriage guidance counsellor about an impotent partner in the past.  She had not experienced impotence as a problem in either her work or personal life and dismissed my concerns about the subject as trivial or irrelevant.  She later admitted that she had probably made our relationship problems worse than they were before we saw her.  So, yes, I think experience (and empathy) are important. 


 


 


 


 



so... she is just bad at her job?


 

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