Equlity. Good thing or not?

[poddster]

This is a simple poll (or is it );-)B-)]:)

The question is:-

Should all people be equal?

Give ita bit of thought before you answer.

If you answer Yes

Why did you answer in the affirmative?

Describe the :"equal" person that everyone should modeled on

If you answer No

Why did you answer in he negative?

[*crikey*mate*]

CM I am so glad you responded 🙂 I think that we need to appreciate that the circumstances we find ourselves in are very vastly different to that we experience in this country.

:-x You already know I love you to bits and can only aspire to do half of what you do. I often think of you when I need some sort of inspiration.... sort of like a "What Would Bella Do". One of the things I admire most is how much you do do, but it is never a complaint - never a burden - it's just something you accept that you have to do to get on with things and make what has to happen actually happen. iykwim.

In some countries walking miles in barefeet and sleeping on dirt floors, in many cases dying of hunger is very sadly the norm.  Its not right and it is a very cruel world that we live in when innocent children die everyday. 

However I'm purely responding from a the point of view in this country, our lifestyle etc as most people are... yet the OP never specified Australian's only If you walked miles in barefeet and couldn't eat or slept on dirt floors the reality is your children would be removed.  We have a level of lifestyle in this country that is deemed as acceptable meeting the needs of children in our care. I agree I presented an extreme example, but it was in an effort to illustrate what lengths some people do go to So what I am saying is those two examples are not comparable because we live in entirely different cultures and countries; thats not to say people in other countries don't deserve better they certainly do and we need to make sure that happens into the future.

So when we speak of equality in this thread - we're really only talking about equality for Australians, not all people? We just forget about them for now?

But I am talking about Australia and people in this country living below the poverty line, how can they afford to pack up and move, where is the money coming for the rental property that cost twice as much as where they live? They move to somewhere cheaper! taking in all facets of their economic means - not just their rent - they source places where the food is cheaper, where they don't have to pay extras for excessive petrol, or cooling or heating for example, to where what they need is centralized etc etc where is the money coming from for the truck to move the stuff or if you do it yourself, I am certain that the government gives people loans for up to $1000 for this purpose for the hire of the truck/petrol and the many other costs.  If you can't meet your daily basic living expenses are you saying its better to be homeless to be in a worst state? No - you move to where your basic living costs are reduced - and remember the platform upon which this discussion is taking place is via the internet on what I presume is everyone's own computer 4 years ago we were homeless luckily only for a few weeks and my family came to the rescue but what about people who do not have family support or access to services? That was where I was coming from. Is there anyone participating in this discussion at the moment, in this predicament? Is there anyone involved in this discussion unable to access or source resources?

The other issue for example is education, not everyone has the initiative you do, the ability to problem solve (see I was complementing you in that post sorry you didn't see it).  Not every one has the same access to services because of where they live. So you move to where they are. Yes that's an issue and when you are in that situation you plan and look at options but if it was my DD for example she simply does not have those skills.

Your DD has you - you are her resource - it is you that is looking out for her, doing whatever it takes to ensure she gets what she needs. I highly doubt that anyone participating in this discussion and diminishing my views on equality shares anything even close to resembling the difficulties your DD does.

What I am trying to say is we all do the best we can do.  I was not insulting you both but rather looking at your differences.  You see both you and Iza have enormous strength, you are both diverse people from different backgrounds that have valid experiences to offer.  I just don't get while you both come to heads at times, maybe read back through the thread..... recognise your diversity and strengths.

Anyway I hope that makes sense...

[*crikey*mate*]

My apologies everybody, I get it now - when we talk about equality, we just mean for Australians..... glad I got that sorted.

We're incapable of looking beyond our own back yard and even considering equality (have we even defined it yet?) on a global scale - as long as we're ok, right?

So George Orwell was right, eh?

All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

BTW - the links I posted earlier - that lady lives in Australia.

[izabsmiling]

While some posts may be specific to our Country. Most have not discriminated on the concept of equality of ALL people.

[izabsmiling]

#217 and #218 are from a global perspective

[izabsmiling]

:-x Bella 

[i-need-a-martini]

As both Bella and I have asked before, yet no one has been able to answer - how does a person quantify equality?

Well in that case Poddster better come back and answer questions (including ones from crystalgems and iza asked right at the start of this thread) about  what Poddster meant by the word equality. In what context is he asking?

From what I can see he seems to be asking in terms of reverse discrimination. "Why should he have this if I can't?" kind of a mentality.

How do you measure it? Who controls it? Who sets the standards and benchmarks for it?

And those are such easy questions.

The benchmarks/standards are set by the government. It's controlled by laws and regulations. And its measured by case studies and actuals.

For example. I am sure we would agree that our society should give people in wheelchairs the same opportunities as those who do not have the disability in order for them to be able to live in our society without barriers.

Studies and history have shown us that people in wheelchairs have certain barriers imposed on them that affect their abilty to live a normal life - stairs are a barrier, light switches are too high, corridoors are too narrow to turn in etc.

Ie. they cannot function in society equally.

If you are in a wheelchair travelling in public is a pain, finding a job in a building that can accommodate you is thwarted, using a public toilet is impossible, etc.

Society has set benchmarks based on our civilised understanding that people in wheelchairs should be treated with equality and given all the opportunities needed to ensure they can live with able bodied people.

So the government sets in place regulation and rules to give people in wheelchairs equality. For me as designer, that means I have to ensure that every building I design is accessible so that if an employee or client is in a wheelchir (now or in the future) they can have access to the building, they won't get stuck in corridoors when they try and turn around, they can use the toilets unassisted etc. The regu;ations are clearly set out in the various acts such as the Australian Standards and the Building Code of Australia.

These rules and regulations are contolled by the law.

Because of these benchmarks/standards/laws/controls (whatever you want to call them) people in wheelchairs can work alongside and able bodies person. That gives them equality.

That example can be used for any segment of sociey where people aren't equal. And as you would know better than many of us here, there is a law or act governing almost every aspect of society where inequality is deemed to exist.

So I am not sure why you are asking things like who controls 'it' or who sets the standards?

[bella_again]

So when we speak of equality in this thread - we're really only talking about equality for Australians, not all people? We just forget about them for now?

Cool love the font colour change thingy lol! You know that's not what I meant 🙂

With equality its dependent on definition and how its quantified.

So equality needs to be measured in order to ascertain what equality is esp where you measure and analyses poverty for example.  Researchers look at poverty indicators ie income etc, but there is a point of measurement to prove inequality. While we measure against other nations there are also measurements within our own country that determines whether people are below the poverty line in this nation etc It's actually quite complex and I possibly lack the ability to get my head around how its measured in varing degrees and within different issues.

But equality as in the worth of an individual says that every individual has the right to access opportunities its not about a thing as she ele said.  In a democracy the worth of the Individual is paramount, our democracy says that there are many different and unique individuals that reside in Australia that have the right to equal opportunity then of course that overflows into equality in education, workplace, gender equality and the list goes on.

Oh and thank you for your lovely words of encouragement, I guess I see my girls as such an important part of my life.  Seriously they are great and compared to many others I have it easy.  But I think we all have our cross to bear and our difficulties, its all part of life 🙂

Now with that I really must go and take care of some things, I'm plowing on to get through some study, I want it finished this year so I can make decisions about our future 🙂 Take care and have a great day.

[i-need-a-martini]

We're incapable of looking beyond our own back yard and even considering equality (have we even defined it yet?) on a global scale - as long as we're ok, right?

Sorry crikey you know I love you but I think you being obtuse. 🙂

Global equality not so black and white given that 'controlling' it is law driven.

But on saying that, why do you think we have organisations such as the UN or Amnesty fighting for? They are fighting for a global equality. If they achieved it, gosh, what a beautiful world!

But whilst other countries continue to treat various people like second class citizens, or rape the planet to the detriment of all inhabitants, or believe they are superior in race to others in the world then the above organisations have a while to go in their fight for equality.

As for Australia, we still have a ways to go also but luckily for us we have embraced the concept of equality. If we hadn't, you wouldn't be studying law right now for one thing.  😉

[izabsmiling]

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/01/11/discrimination-inequality-and-poverty-human-rights-perspective

The post-2015 framework should be grounded in a fundamental guarantee of equality and non-discrimination. Under international law, this requires states to identify and eliminate discrimination and ensure equality. This may require legislative or administrative reform to repeal discriminatory provisions or address discriminatory practices by the government or private actors, a change in resource allocation, or educational measures. The post-2015 framework should embody the responsibility of states, when acting together or alone, to take proactive measures to address entrenched discrimination, both direct and indirect. It should embody the responsibility of states, international institutions, and corporations to avoid and remedy discrimination for which they are directly or indirectly responsible.

[monman12]

"But on saying that, why do you think we have organisations such as the UN or Amnesty fighting for? They are fighting for a global equality. If they achieved it, gosh, what a beautiful world!"

I would overlook the UN immediately, or at least the General Assembly, because that body does not even pay lip service to the equality principles guaranteed by the UN Charter when you consider its performance  apropos Israel.

What about the obscenity of having an egregious human-rights violator chair a UN human rights conference.

The UN human rights council chose Libya to head the planning committee and main committee of the UN Durban Review.

Global equality, whatever that means, but based on comments within this thread I will pass it up.

"level playing field" sounds like part of the Flat Earth Society, or the grass is greener on the other side of the hill, but I can not be bothered climbing the hill so please someone remove it.

When I was younger I did some rock climbing.