Evolution - Yes again.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

Can someone please read this information, and Yes, it's a creationist site, but it explains the  life-from-nothing / evolution theory and how it is flawed..

I understand most of what he is saying, and the arguments seem very logical to me, but, I have no way of knowing whether the Science he is quoting is correct or has subsequently been debunked.

I would appreciate if someone with a bit more knowledge in DNA / RNA / proteins / cell regeneration / cell division etc could advise me.

By the way, he also quotes Dawkin's Ancestor's Tale and how, with recent developments at least some of the assumptions that Dawkins makes are impossible.

Can we PLEASE see if we can keep this thread civil and on-topic.

There is a lot more info on this site too, but first can we look at and discuss:

http://creation.com/genetic-code-intelligence

http://creation.com/meta-information

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@the_bob_delusion wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@the_bob_delusion wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Bob:"What evidence could I possibly provide to someone who doesn't value evidence?"

 I value evidence - that's why I KEEP asking for some.

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THere're evidence from, biology, genetics/phylogenetics, comparative anatomy, direct observation, biogeography, fossil records, embryology, geographical distribution etc etc. Which one of these isn't evidence?

 You can say that all you like, it still does show me any, does it?

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How can anyone take you seriously when you don't even acknowlede that there're evidence for the evolution theory?

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If you were to SHOW ME a piece of evidence, perhaps we could discuss it, but all you have done so far is keep telling me 'there is evidence'. 

[gleee58]

Rabbit, do you have a men's shed in your area?

If you do you might find it a good free place to get some time out with other men.

If you're in NSW - http://www.nswmensshed.org/find-a-shed/.aspx  

[opmania]

In the beginning God created among other things the heavens and the earth

if you can believe that one diety has created all things

why can you not believe that all things are there and have always been there in relation to the heavens and earth

and that creatures evolved during the passage of time an are still evolving

it's much easier to believe that man evolved from apes that to think that an almighty spirit made man and woman from his  bone

the biblical account of history is base on man's interpretation of event's which is always subject to error

another man has interpreted these events in a completely different light with the total exclusion of the son of God

which is predominently what christianity is based on

IMO the Bible was written more along the lines of a legal system written by a very smart fellow in the attempt to bring order and perhaps domination into a lawless society

The fear of God keeps many people on the road to righteousness more so the threat of hell

people need a faith to support them through lifes perils how many people turn to God in bad times and how many people turn away from God in bad times

If there was a God would you think that priests might know it more than anyone else and that he might be watching when they molest children and strike them down with such vengeance because they are supposedly messengers of God

evolution is very logical ,practical and believable

as opposed to a vengeful God and a world full of vengeful believers

[the_great_she_elephant]

Q1. 'everything we know about the universe' - please expand on this.

Perhaps I should have said our solar system rather thsn the universe. It is possible that the universe is eternal. but our solar system most certainly isn't. It is estimated that in about 5 billion years from now the Sun will have used up nearly all its hydrogen and will grow larger and cooler, but life on Earth probably has less than a billion years. http://www.universetoday.com/25367/how-long-will-life-survive-on-earth/

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Q2. 'begs an awful lot of unanswereable questions' - please expand on this.

Well, obvious ones like:

1) Given the number of people who have ever lived and who will ever live, are there really so few 'righteous' that we will all fit  comfortably on one planet?

2) What age will we be? Supposing, for argument's sake that the 'end dy' arrives tomorrowIf I am found to be one of the righteous, will I remain 73 for all eternity?. Will my new little great grandson remain four weeks old for all eternity?

3) Will the population of Earth remain static for all eternity or will it increase? And if so how can it possibly go on increasing for all eternity?

4) If the population does increase, what guarantee is there that furture generations will also be 'righteous' and what will happen to them if they are not? Come to think of it what guarantee is there that those who inherit this new Earth as babes in arms (and presumably those below the age of reason at the second coming must be deemed 'righteous' by default) will continue in the path of righteousness as they grow older?

5) How will we survive once the sun dies,

I guess someone with faith would simply say, to God all things are possible.' But that would sound to me like a bit of a cop-out.

Q3. can we discuss 'Intelligence' V 'Knowledge' V 'intuition' V 'learning' - not in the context of God, but in a normal human context?

I'm more than happy to do so, but as you say, a HUGE area. I'll have to give it some thought before wading in. For starters, though, I guess an example of  instinct (rather than intuition) V learning is that a newborn baby doesn't have to be taught to suckle - it is an instinctive reaction -  whereas as it grows older it does have to be taught (or learn the hard way) that if you touch something hot it will hurt.

[the_great_she_elephant]

So if you dont mind me asking She-ele what do you mean by personal responsibility? 

I mean that I am solely responsible for my own welfare; that there is no ultimate, all knowing  "Father"  to whom  I can look for guidance and help; that my dealings with my fellow humans are not dictated by some supernatural being but by my own sense of right and wrong and a code of behaviour agreed on by the society in which I live.   

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@opmania wrote:

In the beginning God created among other things the heavens and the earth

if you can believe that one diety has created all things

why can you not believe that all things are there and have always been there in relation to the heavens and earth

but you believe that the heavens and the earth are a result of a BIG BANG where NOTHING became SOMETHING.

and that creatures evolved during the passage of time an are still evolving

it's much easier to believe that man evolved from apes  {?? not even evolutionists believe that} that to think that an almighty spirit made man and woman from his  bone

the biblical account of history is base on man's interpretation of event's which is always subject to error

another man has interpreted these events in a completely different light with the total exclusion of the son of God

which is predominently what christianity is based on

IMO the Bible was written more along the lines of a legal system written by a very smart fellow in the attempt to bring order and perhaps domination into a lawless society

The fear of God keeps many people on the road to righteousness more so the threat of hell - there is NO HELL of torment so I'm not worried about that.

people need a faith to support them through lifes perils how many people turn to God in bad times and how many people turn away from God in bad times

If there was a God would you think that priests might know it more than anyone else {why? they have no more knowledge than anyone else - except what has been taught to them by the previous generation of priests - and to most of them, it's just a JOB} and that he might be watching when they molest children and strike them down with such vengeance because they are supposedly messengers of God

evolution is very logical ,practical and believable Not to me it's not! It's totally illogical that all of the millions of intracies in life have come abaout by ACCIDENT

as opposed to a vengeful God and a world full of vengeful believers

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[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Q1. 'everything we know about the universe' - please expand on this.

Perhaps I should have said our solar system rather thsn the universe. It is possible that the universe is eternal. but our solar system most certainly isn't. It is estimated that in about 5 billion years from now the Sun will have used up nearly all its hydrogen and will grow larger and cooler, but life on Earth probably has less than a billion years. http://www.universetoday.com/25367/how-long-will-life-survive-on-earth/

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I read that, and they think that the earth could be moved? If man can move it, so can God if it becomes necessary. We'll worry about that in a billion years or so.

[the_great_she_elephant]

 We'll worry about that in a billion years or so.

Actually, you won't have to worry at all, Rabbit. Because if you are still around in  billion years time it will mean you were right all along, God really does exist -  and presumably has everything under control - and you really are one of the righteous.

(not mocking, just being facetious.)

[opmania]

made no mention of the big bang theory

why can't the universe just be there exactly the same way that god is there

if its possible for one thing to be there why can't the other

I believe man is from the apes some of them even throw back to apelike creatures covered in hair extra long arms , protruding jaws , sunken eyes , why not

the prehistoric relative to todays horse was only about a foot high

I don't think you can believe in Heaven and not in hell aren't the two of them intertwined

you know how long it has taken for all those intriquacies to evolve , millions of years maybe even billions .

humans are only a speck in the evolution of time and even in our lifetime they have evolved .

people are getting taller and straighter , body hair is dissappearing even teeth have changed from skulls of early man , colors are mixing creating a whole new genetic breed

[opmania]

even in recent years micro-organisms have evolved to resist penicillin whereas it has killed pretty much all bacteria for around 100 years