Fractured Factual Tales : Fruit picking and maths

[rogespeed]

So the producers are whinging because not enough idle citizens are fruit picking , and the suburban idle labour force is reluctant to offer themselves because the earnings are effective  2rd world low

In a free enterprise system ( even if we are not quite ) the labour force can decide to withhold their labour pending a better offer of earnings

So take orange picking piecemeal rates , is paid by volume picked , that being a bin ( like a small car trailer with high sides , not a house rubbish bin ) - weight of oranges when filled i got told was 400kgs ( seems reasonable and close enough for this discussion)

So the newbie lured from suburbia dolefully picks the reasonable 3 bins , maybe four , takes 90 minutes per bin , for a princely sum of gross $90-$120 per day , 5 days a week .. $450 - $600 pw gross @ $30 per bin

I think is reasonable to understand a problem with motivation

Now if rate per bin was increased to $60 per bin ... for a newbie  would gross $900 - $1200 per week  , more likely enough to overcome pain and suffering , disruptions to home and social life and other privations while enabling a progressively better standard of life

Of course the producers would claim outrageous !

But should that be ?

By my reckoning ( i am lousy for maths logic )

The price at retail  currently is about $2 per kilogram , this represents value of $800 per bin @  $30 labour to pick

now if the rate was doubled to $60 , this would add $30 costs to the current nominal $800 for $830

A $30 increase , shock horror , however sold at retail per kg an increase from $2.00  per kg to $2.08 per kg

The difference between newbie nett poverty earnings and reasonable is represented by 8 cents per kg at retail.

Of course retailers do not pay pickers - but I thought the dynamics of costing and prices brings a little more insight into what is entrenched thought that is somehow grossly disadvantagous  

[katistrophik]

Interesting, but you would need to know the sell price to the market then retailer, and I can tell you it sure as he!! won't be any where near $2kg - they would be buying in bulk at probably - 70c kilo cost - so cost for bin $60.00  Sale on bin $280 = $220.00

Now deduct all running and production / transportaton / GST / workcover etc costs and there isn't much wriggle room

[imastawka]

The price at retail  currently is about $2 per kilogram , this represents value of $800 per bin 

The problem there is the retailer probably only pays the producer $200 per bin.

Producers currrently under contract to the supermarket conglomerates cannot stipulate a price.

The supermarket tells them what they will pay them.

[chameleon54]

 As a Prime lamb producer I sold lambs this week to the Victorian supermarket trade for around $7.60 kg. dressed weight. The current price for lamb averaged over all cuts in the supermarket trade is around $29.00 per kg. .

Just the broker commissions, levies and yard fees for selling the stock accounted for around 10% of the price I received so I will get around $7.00 per kilo in the hand.. ( slightly less than a quarter of the retail price )

Fruit and Veg growers face much greater competition from international supplies than lamb producers as Australian Lamb producers are the largest exporter globally while Australian fresh produce growers are relatively small beer in the global market and face regular dumping issues from international producers. Aussie fresh produce suppliers would be receiving much less than 25% of retail price. Probably closer to 10%.

All sectors of the produce chain work on a percentage mark up basis on their cost price, rather than a flat fee, so if you double wages for fruit pickers and this increases the base cost of fruit and veg by 30%, you will see this amplified throughout the supply chain to be reflected in a 30% increase at retail.

The majority of shoppers would be up in arms at the thought of a permanent 30% increase in fresh produce prices and so supermarkets will simply substitute Australian produce for imported produce and Australian unemployment will actually increase.

It simply highlights the problem that in all sectors Australian workers expect to be paid much more than international workers for doing exactly the same job. We have been living high on the hog of our base commodity exports and now debt. As population increases due to our migration policies, its simply unsustainable. Wages and living standards must fall over time or Australia will suffer a similar economic crash to that experienced by Greece a few years ago.

Dont believe me or cant face the truth ? Look around, its already happening.

[springyzone]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

 As a Prime lamb producer I sold lambs this week to the Victorian supermarket trade for around $7.60 kg. dressed weight. The current price for lamb averaged over all cuts in the supermarket trade is around $29.00 per kg. .

Just the broker commissions, levies and yard fees for selling the stock accounted for around 10% of the price I received so I will get around $7.00 per kilo in the hand.. ( slightly less than a quarter of the retail price )

Fruit and Veg growers face much greater competition from international supplies than lamb producers as Australian Lamb producers are the largest exporter globally while Australian fresh produce growers are relatively small beer in the global market and face regular dumping issues from international producers. Aussie fresh produce suppliers would be receiving much less than 25% of retail price. Probably closer to 10%.

All sectors of the produce chain work on a percentage mark up basis on their cost price, rather than a flat fee, so if you double wages for fruit pickers and this increases the base cost of fruit and veg by 30%, you will see this amplified throughout the supply chain to be reflected in a 30% increase at retail.

The majority of shoppers would be up in arms at the thought of a permanent 30% increase in fresh produce prices and so supermarkets will simply substitute Australian produce for imported produce and Australian unemployment will actually increase.

It simply highlights the problem that in all sectors Australian workers expect to be paid much more than international workers for doing exactly the same job. We have been living high on the hog of our base commodity exports and now debt. As population increases due to our migration policies, its simply unsustainable. Wages and living standards must fall over time or Australia will suffer a similar economic crash to that experienced by Greece a few years ago.

Dont believe me or cant face the truth ? Look around, its already happening.

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I understand you but the problem as I see it is that it is a vicious circle.

Workers need a substantial wage because prices are so high.. If you look at everything from house & car prices, to food,utility bills etc, it would be very hard for a single person to live on maybe $450 a week. Or at least, that is so in Melbourne.

Every time I see talk of uncompetitively high wages, it is almost always people who are at the bottom of the pile who are being talked about. No one ever seems to suggest that doctors, solicitors or other highly paid sectors should take a substantial pay hit.

You sometimes see people complain about CEO wages and they are often out there too, let's face it.

I'm not saying that there should not be differences in wage levels according to skill & training. Of course there will be. It's the growing size of the discrepancy that worries me.

[davidc4430]

we need to put into the story the govt allowing cheap imports of produce we can grow ourselves from countries that have slacker regulations and pay their pickers/workers next to nothing

but we are told its all part of the grand plan and level playing field

[katistrophik]

but we are told its all part of the grand plan and level playing field

And we can play on that field, but..............

Problem being, if we want Aus produced prices to reflect imported prices, then every worker in Aus needs to take one he!! of a pay cut, and then the tumble down effect among all areas (ALL AREA's of the workforce) may or may not make it viable.

I for one, will not accept a paycut of the magnitiude that would be required - would any one here?

I buy Australian where possible, but if I can feed myself for $50 a week less buying O/S imports I will (many HAVE to)

[rogespeed]

The point i was trying to make was that for a few cents at retail we begger a large labour force or potential labour force  and disgrace our nation in shamelessly bring in 3rd world fly-in/fly-out seasonal workers and hand-to mouth existance young vacationers 

While appreciating the existing labour sources as legitimate is it not time to mobilise the long term urban unemployed idle enmass with a supportive means in baby steps to engage in seasonal harvest work  without disrupting their existing family situations or threatening health

Doubling the rates and passing on that cost to retail would be a start  

As shown would only have very little cost penalty to the consumer 

[katistrophik]

You totally miss the point.

The consumer will be fine, YAY then, but what about the producer ?

They have costs, and earn bugger all at the markets for the procuct in the grand scheme of things.

The reason O/S workers are used, is because WE won't get out of bed for what they are willing to work for.

This is not the producers fault, they are trying to survive. Your way will see all imports coz our struggling producers will go bust

Edited to say: If you are tthinking along the lines of work for the dole then yes I am with you if the Govt have some way of working out who the bludgers are and who the honest to God want to work recipients are = and again the same problem they won't work for peanuts

[rogespeed]

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@katistrophik wrote:

You totally miss the point.

The consumer will be fine, YAY then, but what about the producer ?

They have costs, and earn bugger all at the markets for the procuct in the grand scheme of things.

The reason O/S workers are used, is because WE won't get out of bed for what they are willing to work for.

This is not the producers fault, they are trying to survive. Your way will see all imports coz our struggling producers will go bust

Edited to say: If you are tthinking along the lines of work for the dole then yes I am with you if the Govt have some way of working out who the bludgers are and who the honest to God want to work recipients are = and again the same problem they won't work for peanuts

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Not feasible for $90 a day realistic orange picking for a new guy not hardened - is nothing like the news propaganda video bites of happy workers picking at ground level in slow motion - no heat stress or walking pneumonia, dehydration or wasp stings , no falling off ladders , no disruptions to long established family to adjust to.  

Such bludger talk is either the reactionary rantings of the working uninformed or those experienced, of sociopathic inclinations

The challenge is to provide a clear pathway for those picker inexperienced , physically unfit and of difficult social contructs to transition through vocational training and resource supports to meaningful labour with just earnings without destroying their existing family social enviroments    

Fly-in/fly-out and pack-packers have there place but as a last option , not the cosy convenience one at the expense of long term unemployed - even if the system is designed for inherent wastage and non-attributable economic based punishment