GERMANY incest between siblings

[nero_bolt]

GERMANY’S national ethics council wants to allow incest between siblings

German Ethics Council votes in favour of allowing incest between siblings 

GERMANY’S national ethics council wants to allow incest between siblings, saying the risk of disability in children isn’t enough to warrant the law.

The Independent reports that the council made the recommendation after reviewing the case of Patrick Stuebing, a man who was adopted as a child and met his half-sister when he was 24 and she was 16.

The pair have four children together, however he was jailed for three years in 2008 and his sister, Susan Karolewski, was only allowed to keep one out of their four children.

Two of the children are disabled although it is unclear if that is a result of their parents being related.

Overnight, the German Ethics Council recommended that Section 173 of the German criminal code, which makes incest an offence under which offenders can be jailed for years, be repealed.

The chairman of the council, Christiane Woopen, was among the 14 members voting in favour of repealing the law, while nine people voted for the ban to continue and two abstained.

“The majority of the German Ethics Council is of the opinion that it is not appropriate for a criminal law to preserve a social taboo,” the council said. “In the case of consensual incest among adult siblings, neither the fear of negative consequences for the family, nor the possibility of the birth of children from such incestuous relationships can justify a criminal prohibition.

“The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination has more weight in such cases than the abstract protection of the family,” the council added. “Incest between siblings appears to be very rare in Western societies according to the available data but those affected describe how difficult their situation is in light of the threat of punishment.”

Elisabeth Winkelmeier-Becker, a spokeswoman for Angela Merkel’s CDU party, said the abolition of the law against incest would send the wrong message.

“Abolishing criminal punishment against incestuous actions within a family would go completely against protecting the undisturbed development of children,” she told Deutsche Welle.

The Ethics Council’s recommendation only covered incest between siblings and members did not recommend decriminalising sex between parents and children.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/german-ethics-council-votes-in-favour-of-al...

[kilroy_is_here]

So if the majority came out tomorrow and said that the age of consent should be 14 you would be ok with it

[karliandjacko]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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@azureline** wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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@ashjoma wrote:
Well, there's a lot of issues on the news at the moment.

Also a former neighbour lives next to a household. Cousins married. All 4 children have big issues/ retarded. And it's the rest of us that have to pay for this.

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Christopher Robim Milne married his cousin, Lesley deSelincourt, and their daughter, Clare suffered from cerebral palsey. Whether it was because of the close genetic relationship between her parents I don't know.

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Isn't cerebral palsy an  injury before, during or after birth?

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I don't know, Az I don't have any personal experience with it.If you're right then of course it has absolutely nothing to do with the parents being cousins.

If there are genetic issues in a family then obviously cousins marrying could increase the chances of passing on disabilities.

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And that is why it's discouraged, because the shared genetics increase the chances of passing on a defect.  

[kilroy_is_here]

Bit nit picky but ok yes the age of consent maybe 16 but up until age 18 you can be charged with have sex with a minor in which case the minor consent is null and void

[ufo_investigations]

This should never be allowed!

[azureline**]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/dangerous-love-german-high-court-takes-a-look-at-incest-...

In October 2001 Susan gave birth to their first child, a boy. A social worker suspected that her brother was the father and reported them to the police. In 2002 Patrick was first taken to court. He got a one-year suspended sentence. Then, they had a second child. The first two children are slightly physically disabled and are a little slow mentally as well. They were both taken into foster care. They then had a third child which had a heart problem, but which is now completely healthy after a heart operation.

In 2004 there was a second trial in which Susan K. was a co-defendant because she was 18 when the second child was conceived. Neither of them was assigned a defense lawyer. Patrick was sentenced to 10 months in jail. Susan was put under the supervision of a social worker for six months.

After his second conviction Patrick approached a lawyer who appealed against the verdict. Meanwhile Susan gave birth to a fourth child. It's healthy and she was allowed to keep it.

Both were put on trial again. Patrick got sentenced to one year and two months in jail, and his sister was again placed under supervision. An experienced lawyer then took over the case and managed to bring it before the Federal Constitutional Court. By November 2006 Patrick had served his second sentence. Only if the court now rules against his third sentence will he be spared a further jail term.

"One can't put this poor person in jail again," said his lawyer Endrik Wilhelm.

(Susan is slightly retarded as well, so perhaps this is why the children are and nothing to do with the incest)

[karliandjacko]

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@kilroy_is_here wrote:
Bit nit picky but ok yes the age of consent maybe 16 but up until age 18 you can be charged with have sex with a minor in which case the minor consent is null and void

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Not sure what you mean but a 17 and 16 year old can have sex without prosecution, or an 18 and 16 year old can. 

[kilroy_is_here]

An18 year old could be charged with statutory rape by having sex with a 16 year old

[karliandjacko]

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@kilroy_is_here wrote:
An18 year old could be charged with statutory rape by having sex with a 16 year old

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That's not entirely true. Only if they were in a position of trust or authority of 16 year old.

[j*oono]

Imagine how full our jails would be if every 18yr old boy was charged with rape for having sex with their nearly 17yr old girlfriend.

I think statutory rape is for dirty old losers that can't make it within their own age group. We had one at my boys high school.  The teacher had some time in jail.  I'm not sure what happened to him since but I hope he's not still teaching.

[kilroy_is_here]

This typical of this place, grab onto what ever you can no mater how small and ride that **bleep** as far as it will go , rather than actually debating the wider propersition