Heaven and hell is real

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Mary is the mother of Jesus (God) both is correct. Jesus was conceived miraculously.

 

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IThis quote is from the Catholic Bible at Colossians 1:15 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE), describing Jesus


15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;

 

The first creation of God -  NOT God - God's SON.

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God has existed forever - how can he have a mother? That would mean that Mary is even older than God.

 

I'm not very good at Maths but I know my mother was older than me. I would even go so far as to say your mother is older than you.

 

Mary was a mere mortal chosen by God to bear His son Jesus in his earthly form.

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... once more for emphasis .... please.

 

 

I'm making breakfast etc for my pair at the moment but I will get back to you on this.

 

Do you know me? Do I know you?

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Re: Heaven and hell is real

Question 1:

 

By saying HELL is just the grave you call Jude and Peter both liars and of course you call Jesus a liar also.

 

No, I do not.


2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

So are you saying YHWH simply killed the angels and sent them to a grave?


No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is discussed very well in this link.

http://www.jba.gr/spirits-in-prison.htm - please read it.

 

God (YHWH) Cast the Angels that sinned (in Noah's Day) into Prison (Greek Tartarus - Not Hell) - they are Not Dead - otherwise why would they need to be chained? Also, as you know, Jesus went to Minister to those angels in Tartarus (not Hell - not the Grave).

 

excerpt from link - but, please read the whole thing and you cannot help but see what it is saying:

 

"The phrase “cast them down to hell” is one word in the Greek text the verb “ταρταρόω ” (tartaroo) and it means “to cast down to Tartarus”.
As Bullinger says: “Tartarus” is a Greek word not used elsewere or at all in the Septuaginta.

As Vine explains: “the verb tartaroo, translated “cast down to hell” in 2 Peter 2:4 signifies to consign to Tartarus, which is neither Sheol nor Hades nor Hell, but the place where those angels whose special sin is referred to in that passage are confined “to be reserved unto judgement;” the region is described as pits of darkness” (Vine’s dictionary, p. 553).

 

Tartarus is to be understood therefore as a prison and in this prison, as Peter says, were cast the angels that sinned,
to be reserved in judgment. They are in this prison of darkness reserved for the day of judgment."

 

 

I will get back to you soon on the other points. 

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Question 3:

 

The OT says that YHWH spoke to Moses and sent the plagues into Egypt. Jude says that Jesus IS YHWH.

 

No, he doesn't. You are reading stuff into the Bible passages that is not there.

 

 

Jude1:5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

No, he doesn't say that God = Jesus - nothing like it.  Jude says 1. that: God (YHWH) saved the people out of Egypt - and 2. then God (YHWH) destroyed those that didn't believe. There are no two indivuals here, Jude refers to God (YHWH). 

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Question 2:

 

Jude 1: 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Are you saying Jude got it wrong when he says the fire is eternal?

 

No, Jude didn't get it wrong. The TOTAL destruction of Sodom -  it was turned into ash and even the ground under Sodom burnt so that nothing would ever grow there again. Some commentators say that the fires were still burning in Jude's time (albeit under the ash of the towns) so, to him - eternal fire - and some even say up until this day the site of Sodom and surrounds (now under the Sea - so the seabed) still burns and that sulphur and ash still rise in that area.

 

but read:

2 Peter 2: 6 it is more clear about this in that it says 'extinction' - ie never to exists, be built on or bear fruit again.

 

"if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomor'rah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly;"

 

 

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Religion exists today as nothing more than a means of social control,

 

Couldn't agree more iapetus.  I think it's always been about that.  Think about it, societies need controlling to an extent, and if the people believe in God (I say God rather than God/s because I think we are really discussing the Christian God in this thread and to Christians there is only one true God that should be worshipped above all others.  Doesn't mean I'm denying the existence of other Gods btw, but Christians are taught not to worship the other Gods, they should worship the Abrahamic God of the Old and New Testament.)

 

The Bible outlines exactly how good, strong blooded societies should run, especially the first 5 books of the OT, (hence why they seem so blood thirsty)  and then it proceeds to lay down the law, pretty clearly too can I just add. But the people seem to always go astray, and start to worship idols and love themselves  more than God. tsk tsk naughty people lol  So then comes the wrath.... Sodom and Gamorah know all about that.... And honestly (even if the bible is just a big elaborate story written by a handful of super intelligent guys) what do the people expect, they've gone degenerate, they are breaking every law under the sun, it's almost like it's a competition to see who can break the most commandments in the one sitting lol.  They cop a floggin from Dad and get punished for their disgusting behaviour.  It's divine justice... 😉

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bo-au58 - are you there? No more discussion?

 

OK then. So I'll take it that you now believe that the Angels that sinned in Noah's day are in Tartarus (prison) and there is no Hell of eternal torture.

 

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Re: Heaven and hell is real


@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

God has existed forever - how can he have a mother? That would mean that Mary is even older than God.

 

I'm not very good at Maths but I know my mother was older than me. I would even go so far as to say your mother is older than you.

 

Mary was a mere mortal chosen by God to bear His son Jesus in his earthly form.


God and Jesus and Holy Spirit is one and the same that is why.

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