Heaven and hell is real

[bobbelgra]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I cannot count the number of scriptures that define Jesus as the Son of God.

"The Son of God" or "The only begotten Son of God", "The firstborn of all creation", "My Father is greater than I" - there are hundreds - .

You cannot show me ONE that says Jesus IS God.

I answered all of your questions where you claimed I was calling Jesus and Jude liars. I answered all your questions about people seeing God.  You have not had the courtesy to recognise that I did = or commented on them at all.

Anyway, it's late and I'm off to bed.

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OK then Clive you must accept that the Bible is contradictory and therefore NOT from God.This is your choice.If the Word was with God and the word WAS God but the word was not God as you say then it is contradictory and you ought to throw the Bible out.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I cannot count the number of scriptures that define Jesus as the Son of God.

"The Son of God" or "The only begotten Son of God", "The firstborn of all creation", "My Father is greater than I" - there are hundreds - .

You cannot show me ONE that says Jesus IS God.

I answered all of your questions where you claimed I was calling Jesus and Jude liars. I answered all your questions about people seeing God.  You have not had the courtesy to recognise that I did = or commented on them at all.

Anyway, it's late and I'm off to bed.

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OK then Clive you must accept that the Bible is contradictory and therefore NOT from God.This is your choice.If the Word was with God and the word WAS God but the word was not God as you say then it is contradictory and you ought to throw the Bible out.

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

I cannot count the number of scriptures that define Jesus as the Son of God.

"The Son of God" or "The only begotten Son of God", "The firstborn of all creation", "My Father is greater than I" - there are hundreds - .

You cannot show me ONE that says Jesus IS God.

I answered all of your questions where you claimed I was calling Jesus and Jude liars. I answered all your questions about people seeing God.  You have not had the courtesy to recognise that I did = or commented on them at all.

Anyway, it's late and I'm off to bed.

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OK then Clive you must accept that the Bible is contradictory and therefore NOT from God.This is your choice.If the Word was with God and the word WAS God but the word was not God as you say then it is contradictory and you ought to throw the Bible out.

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OK then. It's always good to have a discussion with you - Oh hang on! a discussion is where you ask questions and I answer them, and then we discuss both our opinions, and then I ask questions and you .... ignore them.

[bobbelgra]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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You are TOO far gone Clive.You are the one putting your spin on them and changing them from they say.It says CLEARLY that Abraham saw Him.You say it does not say that.Well there is no point in any further discussion is there?I mean it says he SAW Him and you say it does not say that.No matter what you are shown you just keep saying it does not say that.Pointless.

[bobbelgra]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life is preserved.

Yet Clive says it is wrong.Jacob did NOT see God according to Clive so we ought to rip this verse out of the Bible.

You remind me of the man that told me that the so called "rapture" was before tribulation.I showed him where it says "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION" and he replied that it was before.So I asked again and he said 100% BEFORE.He claimed I was misinterpreting the word AFTER and it meant BEFORE.

Now Clive you are claiming I am misinterpreting the Word SAW and it actually means DID NOT SEE!

There is no way of arguing with someone like you Clive.None what so ever.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life is preserved.

Yet Clive says it is wrong.Jacob did NOT see God according to Clive so we ought to rip this verse out of the Bible.

You remind me of the man that told me that the so called "rapture" was before tribulation.I showed him where it says "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION" and he replied that it was before.So I asked again and he said 100% BEFORE.He claimed I was misinterpreting the word AFTER and it meant BEFORE.

Now Clive you are claiming I am misinterpreting the Word SAW and it actually means DID NOT SEE!

There is no way of arguing with someone like you Clive.None what so ever.

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I didn't CLAIM anything - I showed you the scriptures.  Are you saying that Jacob wrestled with God himself?

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life is preserved.

Yet Clive says it is wrong.Jacob did NOT see God according to Clive so we ought to rip this verse out of the Bible.

You remind me of the man that told me that the so called "rapture" was before tribulation.I showed him where it says "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION" and he replied that it was before.So I asked again and he said 100% BEFORE.He claimed I was misinterpreting the word AFTER and it meant BEFORE.

Now Clive you are claiming I am misinterpreting the Word SAW and it actually means DID NOT SEE!

There is no way of arguing with someone like you Clive.None what so ever.

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I didn't CLAIM anything - I showed you the scriptures.  Are you saying that Jacob wrestled with God himself?

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Does any of this really matter? Would the God you worship bar someone from heaven based on their belief that someone  in the Old Testament either had or hadn't actually seen him?

[bobbelgra]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life is preserved.

Yet Clive says it is wrong.Jacob did NOT see God according to Clive so we ought to rip this verse out of the Bible.

You remind me of the man that told me that the so called "rapture" was before tribulation.I showed him where it says "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION" and he replied that it was before.So I asked again and he said 100% BEFORE.He claimed I was misinterpreting the word AFTER and it meant BEFORE.

Now Clive you are claiming I am misinterpreting the Word SAW and it actually means DID NOT SEE!

There is no way of arguing with someone like you Clive.None what so ever.

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I didn't CLAIM anything - I showed you the scriptures.  Are you saying that Jacob wrestled with God himself?

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Pointless arguing with you Clive.A waste of your time and mine.If SAW does not mean SAW in your eyes then so be it.Basically you reject most of what the Bible says because it does not fit with what you want it to say.Obviously when the Bible says Jesus was THE WORD  you do not think He was The WORD!I am not going to argue with you.If Jacob said He SAW God and you do not think He did then nothing I say will convince you.

[bobbelgra]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@bobbelgra wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

Gen 32: Jacon wrestled with a man (possibly an angel). Are you trying to tell me that Jacob wrestled physically with God?

Gen18: Abraham saw three men. Three men (angelic messengers?) sent to tell Abraham about Sarah having a baby. The same men (angels) who then went to Sodom.

Job 42: Job saw God with his eyes. Amplified Bible puts it rather well: 5 I had heard of You [only] by the hearing of the ear, but now my [spiritual] eye sees You.

I don't know what the JWs would say but I say you are blinded by your beliefs and putting your own interpretation on otherwise straight forward scriptures. None of the above SAW GOD.

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And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE and my life is preserved.

Yet Clive says it is wrong.Jacob did NOT see God according to Clive so we ought to rip this verse out of the Bible.

You remind me of the man that told me that the so called "rapture" was before tribulation.I showed him where it says "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION" and he replied that it was before.So I asked again and he said 100% BEFORE.He claimed I was misinterpreting the word AFTER and it meant BEFORE.

Now Clive you are claiming I am misinterpreting the Word SAW and it actually means DID NOT SEE!

There is no way of arguing with someone like you Clive.None what so ever.

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I didn't CLAIM anything - I showed you the scriptures.  Are you saying that Jacob wrestled with God himself?

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Does any of this really matter? Would the God you worship bar someone from heaven based on their belief that someone  in the Old Testament either had or hadn't actually seen him?

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It matters a great deal when it stops people seeing the truth.And actually the Bible does not say people go to Heaven.It says the opposite.The churches teach that people go to Heaven but I have not seen that in the Bible.Although when it says EARTH a lot of people probably think that EARTH really does not mean EARTH.

[cmcoins2000]

Oh dear goodness - couldn't possibly quote all of that.

The Bible has been termed the greatest book ever written.

But

In a Court of Law would be considered 'HEARSAY'.

[bobbelgra]

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@cmcoins2000 wrote:

Oh dear goodness - couldn't possibly quote all of that.

The Bible has been termed the greatest book ever written.

But

In a Court of Law would be considered 'HEARSAY'.

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So you are an expert on Law now?In particular the Evidence Act?