How important is a Tertiary Education?

[the_bob_delusion]

Go.

[*mrgrizz*]

yes i want my surgeon operating on me to rely on his life experiences.

[***super_nova***]

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@bright.ton42 wrote:

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I can't be bothered going on, i think some research might be enlightening.  

Many or most of these people did indeed live in times when tertiary education was sought and many of these

people were thrown out of high school and/or college as they were considered inept.

I find their achievements really inspiring. 

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Yes, I think some research might be enlightening, then you may be able to answer my question what is the % of very successful people who did not have tertiary education.  

In the past tertiary education was only available to those who could afford it, and there was a time where it would have been impossible for woman to go to university.  That does not mean that women were not educated, wealthy girls would have been given education at home by tutors, which would often include learning several languages, musical education and they would have been widely read.

In not so distant past, lets say in 1980s people still could manage to work their way up.  But nowadays, person who drops out from high school has to compete for jobs with people who have qualifications.  Nobody is willing to train anybody.  So, to answer the question:  "How important is a Tertiary Education?", in my opinion, kids who get a degree, and preferably another, post graduate one, are going to be more successful than those who do not.

[i-need-a-martini]

 I just think his / her statement that 99 % of people could not develop these skills without tertiary education is elitist, arrogant twaddle which shows a very poor understanding of human intelligence, learning and thought processes.

Please don't think I'm being condescending but I don't believe you aren't looking at it broadly enough. I have not said that you can only develop a creative thought, enquiring mind etc. You have taken those 2 sets of words and isolated them and given them meaning without the other comments I made. As I have said already, a 5 year old s a creative thought, enquiring mind etc and they haven't gone to university. But anyway...

In regards to my "99%" comment, think about it further. For example, someone (it may have been you and if so I apologise for not reembering) mentioned that someone they know who didn't go to university has a brilliant mind capable of creating amazing machinery. Well if you know 2-300 people in your life (family, friend colleagues) and this person is the standout brilliant mind and perhaps there are another 2 or 3 the same then doesn't my statistic ring true?

Or Bright-on gave us a list of brilliant minds who didn't go to university. But does this not also fit into my percentage? The US has 350million people. So in theory 3500,000 should be Mark Zuckerberg types. That is 1%.

Of the 65million UK citizens, we can expect 65,000 to have brilliant minds ala Richard Branson. That is 1%.

So yes of course history has a nice long list of brilliant minds who did not attend university or did not even have a decent education, but I don't think my 99% figure is so far fetched when you you look at it in relative terms.

And after seeing those figures I am doubting it is even 1% lol!

[the_bob_delusion]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

 I just think his / her statement that 99 % of people could not develop these skills without tertiary education is elitist, arrogant twaddle which shows a very poor understanding of human intelligence, learning and thought processes.

Please don't think I'm being condescending but I don't believe you aren't looking at it broadly enough. I have not said that you can only develop a creative thought, enquiring mind etc. You have taken those 2 sets of words and isolated them and given them meaning without the other comments I made. As I have said already, a 5 year old s a creative thought, enquiring mind etc and they haven't gone to university. But anyway...

In regards to my "99%" comment, think about it further. For example, someone (it may have been you and if so I apologise for not reembering) mentioned that someone they know who didn't go to university has a brilliant mind capable of creating amazing machinery. Well if you know 2-300 people in your life (family, friend colleagues) and this person is the standout brilliant mind and perhaps there are another 2 or 3 the same then doesn't my statistic ring true?

Or Bright-on gave us a list of brilliant minds who didn't go to university. But does this not also fit into my percentage? The US has 350million people. So in theory 3500,000 should be Mark Zuckerberg types. That is 1%.

Of the 65million UK citizens, we can expect 65,000 to have brilliant minds ala Richard Branson. That is 1%.

So yes of course history has a nice long list of brilliant minds who did not attend university or did not even have a decent education, but I don't think my 99% figure is so far fetched when you you look at it in relative terms.

And after seeing those figures I am doubting it is even 1% lol!

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Ouch!!!

[the_bob_delusion]

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@*mrgrizz* wrote:

yes i want my surgeon operating on me to rely on his life experiences.

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[chameleon54]

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

 I just think his / her statement that 99 % of people could not develop these skills without tertiary education is elitist, arrogant twaddle which shows a very poor understanding of human intelligence, learning and thought processes.

Please don't think I'm being condescending but I don't believe you aren't looking at it broadly enough. I have not said that you can only develop a creative thought, enquiring mind etc. You have taken those 2 sets of words and isolated them and given them meaning without the other comments I made. As I have said already, a 5 year old s a creative thought, enquiring mind etc and they haven't gone to university. But anyway...

In regards to my "99%" comment, think about it further. For example, someone (it may have been you and if so I apologise for not reembering) mentioned that someone they know who didn't go to university has a brilliant mind capable of creating amazing machinery. Well if you know 2-300 people in your life (family, friend colleagues) and this person is the standout brilliant mind and perhaps there are another 2 or 3 the same then doesn't my statistic ring true?

Or Bright-on gave us a list of brilliant minds who didn't go to university. But does this not also fit into my percentage? The US has 350million people. So in theory 3500,000 should be Mark Zuckerberg types. That is 1%.

Of the 65million UK citizens, we can expect 65,000 to have brilliant minds ala Richard Branson. That is 1%.

So yes of course history has a nice long list of brilliant minds who did not attend university or did not even have a decent education, but I don't think my 99% figure is so far fetched when you you look at it in relative terms.

And after seeing those figures I am doubting it is even 1% lol!

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I  know quite a few more than two or three non tertairy trained people who have a natural gift of creativity, lateral thinking and enquiring minds, its just that the particular person mentioned is verging on genius level, which far exceeds anything I have ever seen from the Uni graduates that I worked with for around a decade.

I know of two other eccentric non tertiary trained engineers who would meet your criteria, a computer / laser technician, ( who started as an apprentice electrician ) a small handful of farmers and another handful of other assorted people who have an exceptional gift for the traits you mention. I also can think of  three tertiary educated people who would have similar skills. Not high numbers I agree, but I would put the ratio at 4 non tertiary trained people to one uni grad that meet your criteria. The three stand out uni grad people I am thinking of, already possessed these skills before attending uni. University just helped them to develop their pre existing skills to reach their potential. One of these was an intelligent and succesfull farmer until age 35 who attained adult entry uni qualifications and now works as a nuclear particle physicist in America.

Most of the uni graduates I know would not meet your creative thinking, lateral thinking, enquiring minds traits in a fit. Most are simply warming seats in rather bland public service jobs, going on six weeks annual leave and waiting for retirement to drive the SUV and caravan around Australia. Nothing wrong with any of that, but they are not the dynamic, super intelligent, lateral thinking minds you depict in your post.

I believe people posses the traits you mention as a natural gift and university can in some circumstances assist these people to further develop their gift and also provide an important base level of knowledge to apply their gift in a chosen specialist vocation.

Martini,  I can see we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[lyndal1838]

Tertiary education is not just University degrees.   Any education completed after leaving high school is tertiary education.

Not every occupation needs a Uni degree.

What University degree would you suggest for a kid who wants to be a plumber or an electrician or a carpenter or a shop assistant or a waitress?

When I left school in the 60s I had no desire to go to university....I just was not interested in all that study.

I did however have a tertiay education....I got a Business College Diploma which ensured better jobs than in a typing pool where girls who did shorthand and typing at school ended up.