If you were Indonesian, what would you think about Australians?

[donnashuggy]

and our Government?

If I try and put myself in their shoes I would probably think that  a lot of Australians are very wealthy, greedy and not terribly compassionate. Generally speaking of course.

Surely they must be in shock when they read about boat returns to their much much poorer country.

[*mrgrizz*]

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@just_me_karen wrote:
Well, if nothing else, it's interesting that so many seem unable to answer the simple questions. Are they unable, or unwilling...or perhaps it's an inability to up empathise and think outside their own world view....or it could be embarrassment at what the govt is doing in our name so it's easier to answer with fruit analogies.

If I was an Indonesian I'd feel offended that my tax dollars have to be spent on thousands of people held in camps there, who are simply in the country on their way to Australia.

I'd probably feel confused that a rich country like Australia is so cruel to people and arrogant towards their neighbours.

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you have no idea..........they aren't staying in camps

they are tourists spending money in the local economy.

and if i was indonesian i would be **bleep** off at the fact they think they could use my country as a staging point

[para-sights]

The power plays are between the leaders of the 2 governments not the people of Indonesia vs the people of Australia. There are probably as many Indonesians as there are Australians who hold no animosity toward most countries who wish this tension would just dissipate and dissolve into nothing

[silverfaun]

Its our millions of tax dollars that is spent on transiting immigrants in Indonesia. Over 20 million  to feed and house  them, mobile phones and health. Thats what was said today but there is millions more spent in Indonesia  on the immigrant situation.

So I dont hate our country, I am not ashamed of our  country and I’m certainly not ashamed of our government.

[tall_bearded]

Why on earth should we give a toss as to what the Indonesians think?

Its government it is one of the most corrupt on the planet.

As a people they actively pursued a policy of handing over escaped allied prisoners and downed airmen, knowing full well that they would be executed by decapitation.

Since World War 2 and continuing to the present its Government has pursued a policy expansionism by force; Borneo and East Timor to name but two

It’s a government which actively supports the persecution of religious and ethnic minorities, with the tool used being local militia trained and armed by the Indonesian Armed Forces, and where required, supported by Indonesian special forces.

It’s a government who is guilty of some of the worst human rights abuses of the latter half of the twentieth century (East Timor) with some who took part now being serving members of the Indonesian Government.

It’s a government which has no hesitation in ordering the murder foreign nations, (including Australians) if it serves their political interests.

And it's a Government which daily compromises the national interest of Australia by actively supporting and profiting from people smuggling.

[donnashuggy]

I don't think anyone chooses where they are born

[tall_bearded]

It is the people who make a nation not its government.

I note you didn’t challenge the fact as stipulated, and as such, I assume you agree that this is the kind of nation we a dealing with.

As for its people, no government can exist without the active support of the majority of its citizens and I consider turning a blind eye as active support.  That is, if the Indonesian people don’t accept what its government is doing,  it’s up to them to do something about it.

[donnashuggy]

No, your points are fine tall bearded, complex. The bottom line is that people don't choose where they are born, tell me one poor country in the world that doesn't have a corrupt government?

[donnashuggy]

additionally, Indonesians aren't all getting education opportunites, if they don't know, how can they challenge their government? They are probably more interested in how many fish they can catch to eat so I don't they it is valid to accuse them of not doing anything about it.

[***super_nova***]

Most of the money given to Indonesia goes to schools.  The decision was made in order to get kids from schools run by radical Imams who were supporting various terrorist organisations.  And it worked; very worthwhile investment IMO.

Those who keep complaining about giving aid show their basic ignorance of how the world works.

Anybody wanting to learn bit more about Indonesia-Australia relationship:

http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/indonesia/indonesia_brief.html

[tall_bearded]

I think you missed my point.  Corruption only exists because people tolerate it. Therefore if the Indonesian people want me, or persons like, me to respect their feelings, then its high time they stood up and be counted.

That is our society exists because people were prepared to stand up and be counted even though they knew they placed their livelihood if not their lives at risk.  So if they (the Indonesians) want my respect, it’s well past time they did the same