Intelligence?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

what is Intelligence?

Are we more or less Intelligent than those who lived 50 years ago?

Are we more or less Intelligent than those who lived 500 years ago?

Are we more or less Intelligent than those who lived 5000 years ago?

Is a person of today who can read, more intelligent than the people of x,000 years ago who recognised the need for written language and set about designing one (well many)?

I am not talking about learned knowledge although that could be a subject all on it's own - I am talking about Intelligence or the ability to reason, learn.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@para-slights wrote:

I like Martini's initial example of the evolution of language to paper etc as an example of generational intelligence. It's not just knowledge that was applied to create and elaborate on already established inventions it takes intelligence to refine the progress, It's only taken us 66 years or so to go from the first true flight of a few metres to sending humans into space. While it maybe that modern technology could be dumbing a generation (I don't believe it's so) there is a certain irony in that classic scenario of parents asking their children how to work modern technology. So I think it's even playing field in comparison lol

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but what do you think about my question in the OP?

Who do you think is more Intelligent, the people who saw a need for and invented writing or those of us today who read.

{edit: I am talking here about the first real writing ie a written language as distinct from pictographs. - Maybe it was aramaic??

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I,m not para-slights but

It still gets back to how you define intelligence. Do we use the academic IQ tests, designed by westerners, for westerners, based on values that western academics deem important or is there other equally valuable forms of intelligence that don't fall neatly into our westernised standard IQ test. I tend to think the latter is correct. Early civilisations and tribesman needed a different set of skills to survive, than we do today. Is the amazing tracking skills of the traditional aborigine a legitimate test of native IQ ? I believe so but westerners barely give it a thought. Is the invention of the wheel as revolutionary in its time as the microchip of today. Again I believe the answer is yes. Thats exactly what I was getting at in the OP. I think it took more imagination to ( design a wheel or) design and develop a written language. And, I have tried to define Intelligence outside the parameters of IQ test.

I think Einteins quote ( per lind9650 ) that " I fear the day that technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots ". is apt and we are probably at that point now. Taking an average of the general population, we have very little life skills, we have everything provided for us, we don't often plan difficult tasks requiring a broad understanding of a range of factors. Basically modern Australians are molly coddled to the extent that the general population is dumbed down and does not need to use ( exercise ) the intelligence we may have, thus not developing it to its full extent. dumbed down - I like that.

If you want evidence,  just look what are the top rating TV shows. No thanks. Read some of the largest daily papers ( tabloids ) or listen to the very high rating "shock Jocks" and younger audience, high rating radio stations. Have a look at the politicians we elect and the short term, self interested policies we as a population demand they implement. If that is an indication of a nation of high intellects then I despair.

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[chameleon54]

 I mentioned the tracking abilities of native aborigines as an example of an intelligence that goes un-noticed by westerners. If we take elite aboriginal sports people as another example, they seem to have greater spacial awareness and a sense of intuition than the average white Australian athlete.

My young teenage daughter plays netball & basketball at a fairly high level. There are a few indigenous kids playing at this level and this spacial awareness and intuition is quite noticeable even in the young kids. At a recent basketball carnival there was a moderate sized young indigenous player who was just amazing in her ability to find space, weave through traffic, instructively know where her team mates and opposition players where on the court, know where the ball was etc. I was just gob smacked by her intuitive play. Is this just a skill or is it more than this, with elite indigenous athletes having an actual  intelligence in this area that we don't understand ??

[chameleon54]

#$@% spell check, Instinctivly, not instructivly.

PS. the indiginous girls team kicked everyones buts, eventually winning the state championship, much of it down to this amazing young indiginous girl. They then went on to beat all of the top interstate teams that where at the championships remaining undefeated.

[serendipityricho]

Re tracking-----Tourist bus stops for a break on an out back track in the NT.

A scruffy Aboriginal appears from nowhere-eyes down.

Was asked what he was doing......tracking.

What are you tracking?-a purple valiant ute-one flat tyre-8 blokes onboard-faulty tailgate.

 Thats amazing--how do you know it has a faulty tailgate?

Cos i fell out about an hour ago................................................................Richo.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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so, are you saying that the new generation is more Intelligent than their parents?

Or is it that they have been conditioned to a set of parameters that Microsoft (to a large extent) dictate - ie that all programs under Windows follow the same formula of 'intuitiveness' - if that's a word. ie the more modern programs at least feature a very similar Intuitive formula as far as operating them is concerned.

{edit: and so, once you know how one works - it's pretty similar to the next one}

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You mentioned earlier an example of the cashier that couldn;t count and you said that have lost ability because of a calculator.The "use it or lose it" scenario.

Well there is also a "use it to improve it" rule - the more you use particular segments of your brain, the more intelligent that section becomes - the more it remembers, the better the output, etc. Lots of scientific evidence to back that one up.

So in theory, yes, we are more intelligent than our parents. Maybe not by much but in different ways.

An example - Neanderthal man's brain wasn't evolved enough to invent a wheel but they were smart enough to survive in the wild. Neolithic man's brain  lost their ability to survive in the wild but evolved enough to invent the wheel.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Alright then who's game?.... and smarter than an early 20th century 6th grader...

I have the questions from the Qualifying certificate examinations from 1911 to 1913 in my " eclectic" collection

[colic2bullsgirlore]

http://www.historyaustralia.org.au/ifhaa/schools/evelutio.htm

copy and paste below explaining the qualifying and other early certificates

The depression of the 1890s and the need for skilled workers impelled merchants to demand that technical education in schools be improved. In the face of criticism from distinguished British visitors and eminent politicians as well, commissions were set up to investigate developments in education overseas.

Their reports left no doubt that the education systems needed major changes.

Fees for high schools were abolished, subjects were improved and courses were extended to four years.

The courses were designed with the student in mind: commercial courses for business, technical courses for industrial, domestic for home management and general courses for higher, professional education.

Would-be teachers now had to complete secondary education and then attend training college.

Three levels of certificates were introduced.

Qualifying certificates were awarded for successfully passing examinations after completing six years in elementary school. Scholarships were awarded which entitled successful students to four years of higher education.

The Intermediate certificate was awarded for the successful completion of four years of high school, and the Leaving certificate for the completion of another two years.

A student who wanted to enter University also needed a Leaving certificate.

At this time, a number of Superior Public schools were operating. Pupils receiving their Qualifying certificates from these primary/elementary schools, and not wishing to enter a High school course, could spend the next couple of years at the school learning subjects that would help them in the future.

The syllabus for these schools was changed so the students could, if they wished, obtain their Intermediate certificate. In time, this type of school became another high school.

Apart from increasing the time spent in primary/elementary schools to eight years, and decreasing the total amount of time spent in high school to four years, this system remained basically the same until the 1950s.

Since then, changes to the curriculum and examination methods seem to have occurred every few years.

The introduction of calculators and then computers to the school room have changed schools so that if our great, great grandparents could only see them, they would shake their heads in disbelief.

[lloydslights]

With that in mind, a nomad in the wilds with no possessions, wouldn't require wheels.   

Their intelligence was used to track food, seek water, etc. to produce implements to kill, etc.

DEB

[i-need-a-martini]

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@lloydslights wrote:

With that in mind, a nomad in the wilds with no possessions, wouldn't require wheels.   

Their intelligence was used to track food, seek water, etc. to produce implements to kill, etc.

DEB

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But I bet their brains were already evolving to give the idea of transport some thought.

"How do I move this big beast I have killed easily so that I can move him to where my family is so that I can feed them."

or 

"My wife is sick. I can't just leave her here. But we have to move on but I can't carry her all the way."

So although wheels seem like a long way down the path, each generations brains would already have been 'reprogramming' themselves so eventually that person who did invent the wheel would have applied their knowledge of what had been occurring before with critical thinking to come up with a new way to move.

[lloydslights]

I hadn't thought too deeply about those scenarios.  

But I remember a primary school teacher telling us that the Aboriginals "hadn't even invented the wheel" when Captain Cook arrived.

DEB