Is Cursive Writing Dead?

[icyfroth]

An Interesting Breakfast Radio Show with Sami and Yumi this morning.

Amongst other things discussed, this topic came up:

"A single sentence, uttered in the trial of George Zimmerman for the shooting of teenager Trayvon Martin, has catapulted an issue into the national spotlight.

When asked if she could read a letter in court, witness Rachel Jeantel, her head bowed, murmured with embarrassment, "I don't read cursive," ABC News reports."

The recently established Common Core State Standards, the standardized educational benchmarks for U.S. public schools, omit cursive as a requirement. Some states, including Indiana and Hawaii, had dropped cursive from their curricula in favor of keyboard proficiency as early as 2011.

A single sentence, uttered in the trial of George Zimmerman for the shooting of teenager Trayvon Martin, has catapulted an issue into the national spotlight.

When asked if she could read a letter in court, witness Rachel Jeantel, her head bowed, murmured with embarrassment, "I don't read cursive," ABC News reports.

Is it any surprise that cursive — the looped, curvaceous style of handwriting that's been a mainstay of education for generations — is all but dead? [15 Weird Things We Do Everyday, and Why]

"Cursive should be allowed to die. In fact, it's already dying, despite having been taught for decades," Morgan Polikoff, assistant professor of education at the University of Southern California's Rossier School of Education, told The New York Times.

"Very small proportions of adults use cursive for their day-to-day writing," Polikoff said. "Much of our communication is done on a keyboard, and the rest is done with print."

Click Here To Read Full Article

I must admit, I don't cursive write anymore my handwriting has degenerated since using the keyboard. When writing by hand, I print.

Yumi says her 9 and 11yo had just learned to print when they had to start all over again to learn cursive.

Sami says if she had kids she'd want them taught cursive writing. Of 5 callers, 3 were adamant they'd want their children to learn cursive writing. The other 2, one them a teacher said no, it's never used in real life, it's taken over by computer writing the same as we use calculator to do our maths with. The other, a child developmental practioner, said children needed cursive writing lessons to help hand-eye co-ordination.

It seems that we are regressing with the education of our children. Over 200 years we battled for public education for every child to be taught to read, write and do basic arithmetic.

I think the socially disadvantaged will become even more so if these basic skills are no longer taught in the public education system.

Technology can fail, but basic learned skills are with you a lifetime.

[freakiness]

---

@the_hawk* wrote:

---

@freakiness wrote:

---

@the_hawk* wrote:

A 18 YO told me he didn't know what I was talking about when I told him about cursive writing, they are not taught it in schools.

as for maths I can add and do percentages in my head quicker than the kids can do them with a calulator, the current education systyem has a lot to answer for.

---

I'd rather kids at school learnt a good understanding of maths than waste time on cursive.  Most cursive is hard to read anyway. Understanding maths and killing the myth that it's something to be feared is far more beneficial.

---

That makes two of us then, maths, science and things like wood work and metal work were my strong subjects.

But I do feel its a shame that many  kids dont even know what it is let alone read it.

English and writing were never a strong subject for me as most here can tell, I always failed them

---

English and writing should not be confused.

Writing cursive has little to do with English. Better english can be learnt through discussion and practice than learnt through workbook excercises that are done then forgotten.  

Curiosity and argument should be encouraged across all subjects.

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@icyfroth wrote:

---

crikey*mate wrote

He got all of the answers correct in 20 minutes (they were allowed 40). His teacher failed him. She then called me up to the school horrified that my kid was failing Math. When I pointed out that he could do math, he had gotten every sum correct, her reply was "if he can't use a calculator he will never be able to do calculus"... I responded that Isaac Newton invented calculus and all he had was an abacus.

---

She failed him because he didn't use a calculator even though he got all the answers right? OMG!

---

The curriculum said he HAD to use a calculator.....

Similar happened in grade 4. He had to do a test of 100 double digit additions. He was supposed to show his working out - i.e. all the carrying numbers etc.... He didn't need to do that, he could do the sums in his head.

He was marked wrong for every single sum on that test too, because he hadn't put in his working out, even though he had 100% accuracy - cos that's what the curriculum said he had to do.

[the_great_she_elephant]

---

@crikey*mate wrote:

---

@lurker17260 wrote:

Technology can fail, but basic learned skills are with you a lifetime.

I agree icy.  In my working life, in finance and bookkeeping areas, because I had learned basic accounting at school and understand ledgers and debits and credits etc, I had a fair idea what the result should be when I entered data into accounting packages and could recognise pretty quickly when an error had been made.  Others, generally younger people of the computer age, would just bligthly enter debits that should be credits and such like and have no idea what had gone wrong and why they were getting the results they were or even that what they were getting was wrong.

There's a lot to be said for understanding the basics of the calculations going on behind your MYOB's or spreadsheets etc

---

Agree's wholeheartedly!

I can't see why it makes a difference if you print or use cursive, but the skill level for mental maths is horrible! Kids can't even give change without a cash register telling them how much to give, or add up a few grocery items to know if they are in budget etc...

When my eldest was in grade 9, he had to do some algebra test and use an Fx82 calculator (calculator skills are actually a part of the curriculum!). He didn't use calculators at all (mainly because he keeps losing them), so didn't on this test.

He got all of the answers correct in 20 minutes (they were allowed 40). His teacher failed him. She then called me up to the school horrified that my kid was failing Math. When I pointed out that he could do math, he had gotten every sum correct, her reply was "if he can't use a calculator he will never be able to do calculus"... I responded that Isaac Newton invented calculus and all he had was an abacus.

OK, I had the luxury of knowing that my kid could already do calculus and higher orders, so I wasn't concerned, but other parents wouldn't know if they were told the same thing. I was made to buy him another calculator or he wasn't allowed to continue taking that Math Class. Once he moved onto yr 11 and 12 Math C, the calculators were over $200 each.

After 3 weeks at uni, he was credited with all 4 years of his math classes for his degree. He still doesn't use a calculator.

It's the same for Middle Crikey, he doesn't need the calculator, but they make him use one anyway.... Roll on university....

A calculator is a crutch and actually slows down the speed at which computations can be produced and rob the brain the opportunity to practise and strengthen neural pathways.

---

Your children are very lucky to have such a natural flair for mathematics, but using their ability as a benchmark is a bit unfair on those who do not have that particular gift.

And if we are not going to teach kids how to use a calculator, why not go the whole hog and do away with computer as educational tools?  After all, following your logic, why  should  a child be' forced' to find information quickly and easily on the internet, when they could spend hours shut up in a library wading through dozens of reference books? 

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@freakiness wrote:

---

@the_hawk* wrote:

A 18 YO told me he didn't know what I was talking about when I told him about cursive writing, they are not taught it in schools.

as for maths I can add and do percentages in my head quicker than the kids can do them with a calulator, the current education systyem has a lot to answer for.

---

I'd rather kids at school learnt a good understanding of maths than waste time on cursive.  Most cursive is hard to read anyway. Understanding maths and killing the myth that it's something to be feared is far more beneficial.

---

*nods*

if taught in a logical order at a pace conducive with the child's ability and the child is given enough time and opportunity to practise and master each step before moving onto the next one, Math is actually very easy to master, it's the curriculum that makes it hard.

[*crikey*mate*]

---

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

---

@crikey*mate wrote:

---

@lurker17260 wrote:

Technology can fail, but basic learned skills are with you a lifetime.

I agree icy.  In my working life, in finance and bookkeeping areas, because I had learned basic accounting at school and understand ledgers and debits and credits etc, I had a fair idea what the result should be when I entered data into accounting packages and could recognise pretty quickly when an error had been made.  Others, generally younger people of the computer age, would just bligthly enter debits that should be credits and such like and have no idea what had gone wrong and why they were getting the results they were or even that what they were getting was wrong.

There's a lot to be said for understanding the basics of the calculations going on behind your MYOB's or spreadsheets etc

---

Agree's wholeheartedly!

I can't see why it makes a difference if you print or use cursive, but the skill level for mental maths is horrible! Kids can't even give change without a cash register telling them how much to give, or add up a few grocery items to know if they are in budget etc...

When my eldest was in grade 9, he had to do some algebra test and use an Fx82 calculator (calculator skills are actually a part of the curriculum!). He didn't use calculators at all (mainly because he keeps losing them), so didn't on this test.

He got all of the answers correct in 20 minutes (they were allowed 40). His teacher failed him. She then called me up to the school horrified that my kid was failing Math. When I pointed out that he could do math, he had gotten every sum correct, her reply was "if he can't use a calculator he will never be able to do calculus"... I responded that Isaac Newton invented calculus and all he had was an abacus.

OK, I had the luxury of knowing that my kid could already do calculus and higher orders, so I wasn't concerned, but other parents wouldn't know if they were told the same thing. I was made to buy him another calculator or he wasn't allowed to continue taking that Math Class. Once he moved onto yr 11 and 12 Math C, the calculators were over $200 each.

After 3 weeks at uni, he was credited with all 4 years of his math classes for his degree. He still doesn't use a calculator.

It's the same for Middle Crikey, he doesn't need the calculator, but they make him use one anyway.... Roll on university....

A calculator is a crutch and actually slows down the speed at which computations can be produced and rob the brain the opportunity to practise and strengthen neural pathways.

---

Your children are very lucky to have such a natural flair for mathematics, but using their ability as a benchmark is a bit unfair on those who do not have that particular gift.

And if we are not going to teach kids how to use a calculator, why not go the whole hog and do away with computer as educational tools?  After all, following your logic, why  should  a child be' forced' to find information quickly and easily on the internet, when they could spend hours shut up in a library wading through dozens of reference books? 

---

My kids work hard to master their math, please do not diminish the many hours practise they put in. Just like a kid who swims, if he never learns correctly he will never succeed. If he then doesn't do adequate training to ensure mastery he will never win a race either. A kid gets good at swimming because he practises. He swims up and down that pool for hours a day - same for a kid who is good at football, he practises getting that ball in goal hundreds and hundreds of times.

My kids are good at math because they practise. Jusat like anyone who shows proficiency in any sport or other field. When their mates were doing ten sums a week for homework, my kids were doing hundreds a day. They got good because they practised. It's as simple as that. They got accurate and they got fast because they practised.

You are comparing two different things. You are not following my logic at all. Replicating skills and knowledge that you have already learned and mastered is a lot faster than using a calculator. However,, finding information that they do not know is a lot faster on a computer than in a library.

[illicit69]

Whilst agree that Mathematics (without the use of the dreaded calculator) is the most important of all the subjects at School. However, if you’re not taught cursive writing (it used to be called “copy book” writing when I was a child and I loved it,are our children of today going to simply print their signature because they’ve never been taught basic ‘running writing’ – how easy that would be to forge? Call me old fashioned, but to my mind true cursive writing (penmanship) is a thing of beauty, it’s an art and something that should never be allowed to die. 

[*crikey*mate*]

and for the record She Ele, over an 8 year period I had the pleasure of teaching and guiding a couple of THOUSAND kids through a mathematic system arising from Japanese methods, The average child takes 7 years to go from the beginning of the program (or wherever their "just right" level of study is when they commence to levels taught in 2nd year University here in Australia.

So please don't conclude or perpetuate the myth that my experiences are based on only my children, with few exceptions, any child can achieve the same level of mastery as mine have (and thousands do every year) simply by being introduced to material in a logical order and allowed sufficient time and opportunity to practise to ensure mastery at every step before moving onto the next step.

We often see a lot of grade 8 kids come for help because they couldn't do algebra. Upon dioagnostic testing, it could be seen that they understood the rules and what they had to do, but it was some step before that that they had never mastered - usually multipication.

If you can't count, you cant add. if you can't add you can't subtract. if you can't add you can't  and if you can't multiply or subtract you  divide, if you cant divide you cant do fractions and if you cant do fractions you have no hope of algebra and beyond. It's as simple as that.

[tasfleur]

If you can't count, you cant add. if you can't add you can't subtract. if you can't add you can't  and if you can't multiply or subtract you  divide, if you cant divide you cant do fractions and if you cant do fractions you have no hope of algebra and beyond. It's as simple as that.

Can't argue with that ...

[*mrgrizz*]

that raises a very valid point.

i had never thought of the signature.

when i was at school it was called running writing

[azureline**]

Queensland beginners font is used here.

Queensland Cursive

hope this works as a copy/paste.