Let's Avoid More Rows!

[icyfroth]

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono says "precise measures" must be taken to avoid a repeat of the spying which caused a deep rift in relations with Australia.

Dr Yudhoyono on Tuesday met with some of his closest advisers and senior ministers to discuss an official response to a letter from Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

The letter was received on Saturday in response to demands from Jakarta for an explanation over the tapping of the president's phone in 2009.

While Indonesian officials have refused to reveal the contents of the letter, a spokesman for the president said before the high-level meeting at the presidential palace that it was in line with expectations.

Indonesia last week suspended all military co-operation with Australia, as well as co-operation in combating people smuggling, intelligence gathering and anti-terrorism efforts.

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[fourandsixpants]

ref.

"They're all introduced species.Imagine how much more fracking we could do if all that land wasn't used for rearing cattle and sheep."

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[fourandsixpants]

ref.  polocross58 comments :

".... farmers are forced to sell the farm because Chemtrail droughts have sent them bankrupt..."

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wow......didn't think posters on these forums believed that 'chemtrailing/chemtrails' existed?

.......not one poster has attacked this knowledgeable, intelligent poster for referring to Chemtrails.....Hmmmmn, wonder if this same poster will get banned from these discussions for any period of time as well for mentioning Chemtrails?.......

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Yes I support live cattle export.

I have worked in halal abbatoirs right at the pointy end.google knocker and sticker.

It is a fact that it is not the stun that kills animals that are slaughtered in abbatoirs. All of them die from blood loss after

severing the corotid arteries.

The only difference with halal slaughter is that the person doing the slicing is a muslim halal accredited slaughterman,

the need for the orientation of the carcase to face the west and the blessing of the first blood.

I understand that not every slaughter will be/be seen as humane however

I also understand that the bulk are in fact humane.

Tv Journalism does not gain ratings from showing the bulk of the slaughters that are humane day in and day out just

the few that sensationalize poor Halal slaughter methods often on beasts that are physically too big to be restrained in

a knocking box. If you look closely at the 4 corners footage you can see the same.

Just as many cattle jump the knocking after being stunned using conventional slaughter methods

I am adult enough to interpret the statistics.

Blind Freddie can see that domestically many more cattle die a savage

death in a NT paddock alone than die on the "horrendous" boat journey to other countries.

The figures are in my post above

[colic2bullsgirlore]

So in total for Australian cattle export worldwide in 2012 626,504 cattle were exported and 681 of those died on a boat

during the voyage or .11%

While the mortality rates for female cattle on stations across the top of Australia that stayed at home ranged from 3.9% to

12.84% as per the MLA statistics from a 5 year study of approximately 50 properties.

So what kills many more cattle?????

the paddocks at home or the boat voyage ?????

[freshwater-2]

OMG, are you saying that those films which exposed the cruelty inside abbatoirs by Animals Australia and other animal welfare agencies  (and some secretly by the actual workers in the abbatoirs) were fake?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

No....where did you get that idea??? just a post number and quote will do

I am typing that the film crew did not stay at the abbatoirs day in and day out and film all the humane kills and publicize

those.

Of the 278,000 cattle that were imported from australia into Indonesia last year how many slaughters did the tv program

film????

Freshwater dont try and deflect between 2.9% and 14% of the cattle that stayed at home died in the paddock while .11%

died on boats in transit.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Although to some it may not appear the case. I am quite passionate in that I would prefer that every animal suffered

minimally with the least stress possible during slaughter.

I eat fish and understand that the fish has probably suffered during death. I also understand that for the pro fishermen it is not sport but it is their interests (in most cases) to facilitate death as quickly and efficiently as possible then supply their catch for consumption.

I cannot understand however for the life of me why catch and release fishing is determined as  "sport" however yet poor slaughtering practices are highlighted correctly as cruel.

I have a real problem in my own mind justifying fishing as a sport where  anglers sometimes "play" an animal fighting for its life.

It is often glorified in many shows on prime time TV but rarely described as cruel.

You can buy books that help you to get better at it.

It is for many a part of the "parent" rite of passage to teach their children how to fish catch and release effectively.

There are competitions advertised and reported by media nationally and internationally.

The amount of animals "tortured' then released is astronomical.

Yet few (I know anyways) complain.

I personally cannot stomach it and only feel despair for the fish when they are proudly displayed by the catcher then released.

But that's just my opinion and  understand that others will have different views

http://www.peta.org/about-peta/why-peta/catch-and-release-fishing/

an excerpt from the PETA site on catch and release fishing

"Catch-and-release fishing is cruelty disguised as “sport.” Studies show that fish who are caught and then returned to the water suffer such severe physiological stress that they often die of shock. Fish often swallow hooks, and anglers may try to retrieve a hook by shoving their fingers or pliers down the fish’s throat, ripping out not just the hook but some of the fish’s throat and guts as well. When fish are handled, the protective coating on their bodies is disturbed. These and other injuries make fish easy targets for predators once they are returned to the water.

Fish feel pain because, like all animals, they have nerves. Hooked fish struggle out of fear and physical pain, desperate to breathe. Once fish are hauled out of their aqueous environment and into ours, they begin to suffocate, and their gills often collapse. In commercial fishing, fish’s swim bladders can rupture because of the sudden change in pressure.

Angling hurts other animals too. Every year, anglers leave behind a trail of tackle victims that includes millions of birds, turtles, and other animals who suffer debilitating injuries after they swallow fishhooks or become entangled in fishing line. Wildlife rehabilitators say that discarded fishing tackle is one of the greatest threats to aquatic animals.

Fishing is far from a harmless pastime. Please encourage anglers to ditch their poles and try alternative activities, such as hiking, camping, and canoeing."


the links below are pdf files  that highlight some catch and release angling fish mortality studies



http://www3.carleton.ca/fecpl/pdfs/Bartholomew%20Review.pdf

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/274679/Conservation-catch-and-release-part-2.p...

[freshwater-2]

Colic, each of the beasts to be exported was certified to be in perfect health....unlike the beasts 'on the ground' in Australia.

You are comparing oranges with apples.

[j*oono]

Over what time period did it take for the 2.9 - 14% of cattle that died in the paddock?  I'm sorry if you already mentioned but you said it was a 5 year study.  I'm sure it wasn't over five years but was it the same length of time that it takes for the sea voyage?

[icyfroth]

what do the cattle in the paddock die of?