Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women

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The Problem of Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women

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Voltaire: “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” .
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@village_person wrote:

To all those who claim to have had a coversation with a muslim about the hijab I think we should question the veracity of statements coming out of those conversations. The koran says:

 

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

 

Muslims, if they believe in the hijab because of Islam's totems, must likewise adhere to the instruction not to befriend Jews and Christians. They can't have it both ways.


"The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Ma’idah is: [O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)

It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other."

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women


@*julia*2010 wrote:

 

 

i didn't say we should dismiss it. village person covered the koran,you quoted form the hebrew bible,i felt someone needed to mention that the christian bible says about how to treat non-believers.

 

now we have all 3 major religions 

 

Silly me, there I was thinking the Christian Bible ( of many translations) included both the New and Old Testaments. Does that mean that those quotations taken from the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) are not part of the New Testatment(Christian Bible) and are non-binding on Christians  ?  
If so, do the things like the Ten Commandments ( thou shall not kill etc etc) and Gods creation of the world become non-binding or irrelevant to Christians. I do recall a lot if not all of the "Bible Bashing Christian Evangelists" usually take the subjects/texts/sermons/examples from the Hebrew Bible

 

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women

then maybe go on to ask them if they really believe, that Muhammed once flew on a winged horse to visit heaven (paradise).

 

What would that prove. The bible says that Elijah flew up to heaven in a firey chariot the New Testament tells us that Jesus rose from the dead and ascended body and soul into heaven and Catholics believe that Mary was raised bodily into heaven after death.

 

You have missed the entire point of my post. I am an atheist I don't believe in ANY religion, and I have never made any claims about what ordinary Muslims do or do not believe. I would never be so arrogant as to assert - as VP did - that any Muslim who has non Muslim friends is not really a Muslim but only thinks she is. Empirical evidence leads me to suspect that, regardless of what certain verses in the Koran may say,  this statement  is bulldust but since I am not qualified to judge I don't do so.

 

And since, as an atheist, I evaluate people according to the way they treat others rather than which  religion they follow, I do not subscribe to either anti or pro Islam websites.

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Sorry to tell you lind9650 but muslims (A muslim by definition means one who surrenders and submits to the laws of God) are not allowed to cherry-pick the parts of the koran they like and disregard the parts that aren't particularly appealing. Your friend was not a muslim but merely thought she was

 

Do Catholics who practise birth control merely "think" they are Catholics?

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women


@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Here's an idea VP. Instead of simply reading the Koran or, more likely, selective verses posted on anti Muslim websites, why don't you go down to your local mosque, sit down with the Imam there and ask him whether he and the people to whom he ministers are permitted to have non Muslim friends. then come back and tell us what he says.


If the imam is truly a muslim he must adhere to the koran. We know what the koran says about taking non-muslims as friends.

 

Muslims tell us that the Koran is the immutable word of allah. It is free of errors and not subject to interpretation or emendation. No imam, mullah, mufti or other person has been granted permission to explain the koran’s contents. As the opening of the Koran says: 2.2 This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.

 

Can it be any clearer? The Koran needs no help as there is no doubt. Despite this we have people telling us that the Koran doesn’t mean what it says when a particular verse might seem a bit harsh or unpalatable. They tell us that the local imam provided an interpretation of a verse to remove confusion. The unbelievers, the kafirs are not impressed by the various imams, mullahs, and muftis all of whom seem to be gripped by theomania.

 

The abstrusity of the Koran means that the majority of people will not go down the primrose lane with chadbands.

 

TGSE, some of us pass through the difficult years with little damage yet others are scarred for life as they carry the burden of hebephrenia.

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women


@tezza2844 wrote:

@village_person wrote:

To all those who claim to have had a coversation with a muslim about the hijab I think we should question the veracity of statements coming out of those conversations. The koran says:

 

5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are but friends to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

 

Muslims, if they believe in the hijab because of Islam's totems, must likewise adhere to the instruction not to befriend Jews and Christians. They can't have it both ways.


"The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Ma’idah is: [O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.] (Al-Ma'dah 5: 51)

It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other."

 

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/friends.htm


Indeed it is written tezza2844. And jolly good luck to those who decide to cleave to their beliefs. Be very careful because you are adding an interpretation to the verse quoted and as you know the koran needs no help as there is no doubt.

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women

We know what the koran says about taking non-muslims as friends.

 

We don't. In this thread we only know what your cherry picking of verses in the Koran has told you. And since I suspect you have never discussed your assumptions with anyone who actually practices the the religion of Islam I don't find them particulary compelling.

 

And I can't see how alluding to a particular form of mental illness is relevant to this thread. Are you suggesting that Muslim women who wear the hijab are all suffering from hebephrenic schizophrenia?

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women


@village_person wrote:

. Be very careful because you are adding an interpretation to the verse quoted and as you know the koran needs no help as there is no doubt.

And you obviously are a scholar fluent in Classical Arabic.  Or are you depending on translation and interpretation of someone else?

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Voltaire: “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” .
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@***super_nova*** wrote:


And you obviously are a scholar fluent in Classical Arabic.  Or are you depending on translation and interpretation of someone else?


Are we talking translation or interpretation? If it's translation, no objection has been raised by imams, mullahs, or other members of islam's hierarchy regarding the translation of certain words. As we know interpretation is verboten.

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Re: Linking Hijab to Oppression of Women

As we know interpretation is verboten.

 

How do WE know? I certainly don't, and neither does anyone else here - unless they have actually asked someone who has the knowledge and authority to tell them. Where does your information come from? 

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