Living with the Enemy on SBS

[ufo_investigations]

I just watched LIVING WITH THE ENEMY on SBS.  The story about Ben the Aussie going to live with Lidia and Ahmed the muslims. Lidia is an Aussie and was raised Catholic and converted to Islam. Ahmed was born in Saudi Arabia.

What did I learn?

- Muslim women wont shake hands with a male person their not related to. (Very rude).

- When husband and wife muslims pray in their own house, the wife has to pray behind her husband. (Women are not treated as equals even in their own house).

- Christians are not allowed to visit Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Why? Because you have to be muslim to be allowed.

- Mosques can be built all over Australia but we can't build a Church in Saudi Arabia.

- The Quran tells muslims to kill people.

- In the mosque women are behind the curtain at the back. It's their own area. Why? Because the men have to be in a different section. Why? To give women privacy. This is the reason they cited. The real reason I believe is not to cause desire in the men.

- When they went shopping they visited a halal butcher to buy lamb shoulder. Ben wasn't consulted. What if he wanted pork chops?

- They went to Bondi to do an "Aussie thing called surfing". Lidia went swimming in her full Islamic clothing then when she came out of the water she placed a towel around her depicting the Australian flag.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Why bring the Bible into this, as if the bad things written in the Bible somehow justify the bad and confrontative things written in the Koran?

Because just as all Christians and Jews don't follow every single thing written in the Bible, so all Muslims don't follow every single thing written in the Quran.

So quoting any passage in the Quran and assuming it applies to to all Muslims is as pointless as  quoting a passage from the Bible and assuming it  applies to all Christians.

[bushies.girl]

I have also seen videos of how many of the animals are treated once they arrive, not particularly humane 😞 

[iapetus_rocks]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Why bring the Bible into this, as if the bad things written in the Bible somehow justify the bad and confrontative things written in the Koran?

Because just as all Christians and Jews don't follow every single thing written in the Bible, so all Muslims don't follow every single thing written in the Quran.

So quoting any passage in the Quran and assuming it applies to to all Muslims is as pointless as  quoting a passage from the Bible and assuming it  applies to all Christians.

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Muslims consider that evry word written in the Koran is the literal word of God. Which is why appeals to revise it to remove or modify some of its' more challenging teachings will always fall on deaf ears.

I understand and appreciate your point of view.

So, maybe you agree with me, that both the Bible and the Koran are equally deserving of condemnation for teaching hate and bigotry along with the suppression of women and their appeal to be considered as the equals of men?

[i-need-a-martini]

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@iapetus_rocks wrote:

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@i-need-a-martini wrote:

No one even seemed to notice when I posted way back above that Islam condemns Christianity and their church for worshiping a polytheistic god. (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)  . . they hate that and condemn it many time in their scriptures.

A bit like the way the Bible condemns all other religions?

Yes you are right. People ARE ignorant.

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Why bring the Bible into this, as if the bad things written in the Bible somehow justify the bad and confrontative things written in the Koran?

Sure the Bible has a lot of criticism to answer, but it's a red herring to try to distract us with comparisons. Take each scritpture on it's own merits.

And at the moment, this seems to be (apologies to Boris) a discussion about Islam and what it teaches.

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Because it is an apt and relevent comparison seeing we are generalising.

For every beheading in the Koran (of which there are few), the Bible has many more. For every reference to a womans role in society, the Bible has many more. 

You want to explain the actions of a bunch of extremist Muslims by laying the blame at the feet of the Koran? Would you lay the same blame at the feet of Bible because of the actions of a mad bumch of Catholics/protestants in Ireland. 

If you or others think some like me are being ignorant because you beleieve we don't actually know the reality of Islam because you assume (wrongly) that the Koran hasn't been read, then I believe you are showing your own ignorance by ignoring that the Bible is about as representative to Christians as the Koran is to Muslims.

What is ignorant is taking the Koran (or the Bible) at face value and assuming that all follwers of either will take it literally.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@bushies.girl wrote:

If they eat so little meat why is there such a huge live trade export? Where I used to live. the live trade ships came into port regularly. They are many storeys high and carry 1000's of sheep. I have seen the conditions the sheep are squashed into, many of them die horrible deaths at sea. NO animal should have to endure this for anyone's religion 😞

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That's a very different issue bushie. We can't control how another country slaughters live animals and whilst I agree it is apalling, the industry brings in something like $8bill annually so 'we' continue to turn a blind eye. 

The reason so much meat is transported is because the global market is huge. And it isn't just a Muslim market as much live trade goes to Western markets. We even export live trade to NZ which is something I don't understand.

But in Australia we only have 500,000 Muslims. So even if they were big meat eaters, it is a miniscule market in comparison to the rest of the meat eating population.

[karliandjacko]

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@iapetus_rocks wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Why bring the Bible into this, as if the bad things written in the Bible somehow justify the bad and confrontative things written in the Koran?

Because just as all Christians and Jews don't follow every single thing written in the Bible, so all Muslims don't follow every single thing written in the Quran.

So quoting any passage in the Quran and assuming it applies to to all Muslims is as pointless as  quoting a passage from the Bible and assuming it  applies to all Christians.

---

Muslims consider that evry word written in the Koran is the literal word of God. Which is why appeals to revise it to remove or modify some of its' more challenging teachings will always fall on deaf ears.

I understand and appreciate your point of view.

So, maybe you agree with me, that both the Bible and the Koran are equally deserving of condemnation for teaching hate and bigotry along with the suppression of women and their appeal to be considered as the equals of men?

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How can you speak for all muslims?

The bible and the koran might be equally deserving of condemnation but not all the people who call themselves Christian or Muslim deserve the same because they mostly live in the here and now not some long past century.

[iapetus_rocks]

 Why bring the Bible into this?

Because it is an apt and relevent comparison seeing we are generalising.

For every beheading in the Koran (of which there are few), the Bible has many more. For every reference to a womans role in society, the Bible has many more. 

You want to explain the actions of a bunch of extremist Muslims by laying the blame at the feet of the Koran? Would you lay the same blame at the feet of Bible because of the actions of a mad bumch of Catholics/protestants in Ireland. 

If you or others think some like me are being ignorant because you beleieve we don't actually know the reality of Islam because you assume (wrongly) that the Koran hasn't been read, then I believe you are showing your own ignorance by ignoring that the Bible is about as representative to Christians as the Koran is to Muslims.

What is ignorant is taking the Koran (or the Bible) at face value and assuming that all follwers of either will take it literally.

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I am not generalising and nor am I comparing. My appeal is to those who are interested enough to have opinions, to actually have some knowledge of what they have opinions about.

I understand that some people would want to be symapathetic and see the good side of religions. and there are some good sides. But all too few of them.

I think it's more important to hear from Muslims who will tell you and me what their religion says. And what do they tell us?

If you really want to know, then ask them. But in the event that we ask them, they will tell us something which we want to hear.

If you really want to know, then read.

[iapetus_rocks]

If you really want to know, then ask them. But in the event that we ask them, they will tell us something which we want to hear.

Ok, I was wrong. It depends on where you are; where you are living and where they are living when you ask them.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

I think to call God "It" would be a trifle disrespectful.

Why?

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I don't think that it's just me, but somehow, He, Him and Father seem more respectful.

[i-need-a-martini]

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@iapetus_rocks wrote:

 Why bring the Bible into this?

If you really want to know, then ask them. But in the event that we ask them, they will tell us something which we want to hear.

If you really want to know, then read.

_______________________________________________________________________________________ 

I have read iapetus. I do know what is is the Koran. I haven't read it all and neither have a read the Bible all as both are frankly too tedious. But I have read them freely and without being directed to certain passages by anyone.

And as I said earlier, the violence in the Koran is less vicious than in the Bible. In fact, whilst the Christian God goes about asking believers to annilate entire defenceless races (genocide seems a favourite pasttime of his) most of the violence in the Koran is related to battle or is self defence. I am sure if you have read both you wil agree.

And in regards to "asking them", that is about as absurd as asking Christians to explain/defend the violence and mysogyny outlined in the Bible.