on 12-04-2015 12:03 PM
From January 2016 parents who do not vaccinate their kids will lose up to $15 000 in allowances/concessions, except in cases of medical and some religious reasons.
Solved! Go to Solution.
on 17-04-2015 10:37 AM
Deb. Gawd, I need more coffee.
on 17-04-2015 02:23 PM
SHW I have mentioned that I do not normally debate "at length" those who espouse a (lost) cause when they lack in specific appropriate expertise/knowledge, or can not produce proof in the form of (as herein) of peer reviewed papers and/or professional bodies opinions.
However having an interest in law, and noticing your comments I refer you to the British case in which she played a prominent part preceding the GMC actions which resulted from it
Case No: PO97P00384 & BH01P00395
IN THE HIGH COURT OF JUSTICE FAMILY DIVISION [2003]
This can be found on the aptly named the quackwatch site.
http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/mmrcase.html
British Courts Side with Vaccination in Parental Dispute
"The evidence of Dr Donegan is treated with great reserve. She has deeply held feelings on the risks of immunisation. She allowed this to overrule her duty to provide objective unbiased opinion considering all the relevant facts including those which detract from her opinion."
Actually the charges brought by the GMC as a result of the High Court comments were nothing like this nonsense:
" Proving That Vaccines Aren’t Necessary To Achieve Health:
They actually were:
a. Gave false and/ or misleading impressions of the research which you relied upon,
b Quoted selectively from research, reports and publications and omitted relevant information,
c. Allowed your deeply held views on the subject of immunisation to overrule your duty to the court and to the litigants,
d. Failed to present an objective, independent and unbiased view;
7. Your actions in head 6. above were,
a. Misleading,
b. In direct contravention to your duty as an expert witness; unprofessional,
c. Likely to bring the profession into disrepute;
SHW you write"
Dr. Donegan was called upon as a witness to provide evidence that children do not need vaccines to be healthy and that many are unnecessary and unsafe.
This brought unwanted attention to her from the British General Medical Council who then took her to court.
During this 3 year trial, she presented her evidence against a very tough opposition involving many QCs and a very expensive legal team, yet Dr. Donegan and her much smaller team WON the case.
The GMC hearings against Donegan actually, in short were that Donegan had misrepresented the scientific evidence she had quoted in the court case
It was not a court but a GMC hearing and it certainly did not last for 3 years.
The charges were served September 2006, and the hearing was from Aug 7th to the 25th, 2007
Many QCs? The GMC team:
Mr T Kark, Counsel, instructed by Field Fisher Waterhouse, Solicitors, appeared on behalf of the General Medical Counsel
Donegan's team:
Mr I Stern, QC and Mr S Singh, Counsel, instructed by Clifford Miller,
One nutty swallow a summer does not make, nor does unresearched twaddle and quotes that are incorrect'
I finish with a comment from a British High Court Judge apropos Donegan:
“Most of the published papers cited by her in support of her views turned out either to support the contrary position or at least to give no support to her own. Not to mince words, the court was presented with junk science.”
on 17-04-2015 03:00 PM
SHW I have mentioned that I do not normally debate "at length" those who espouse a (lost) cause when they lack in specific appropriate expertise/knowledge, or can not produce proof in the form of (as herein) of peer reviewed papers and/or professional bodies opinions.
This is not a lost cause. CBS 13 news aired an open debate very recently. You can watch it on YT, Town Hall: Vaccinations. You always seem to have such a condescending approach to your comments, like as if you are always the authoritative voice on whatever it is you are talking about.
"In 2002 Dr. Donegan went to the High Court, as she was involved in a case where two mothers were fighting their ex-partners about their children’s vaccinations. The mothers did not want them to be given to their children – under any circumstances – for fear of causing irreversible harm, but the fathers did, so a controversial court case ensued.
Dr. Donegan had been writing and speaking publicly about vaccinations and natural ways of keeping children healthy so she was asked to be an expert witness by the two mothers. Dr. Donegan gave her professional opinion that the safety and efficacy of vaccines has not been well studied and that there were other ways of achieving health than vaccination for these children.
Due to the information she was providing in court (which went straight against the typical mainstream medical advice), the Appeal Judges called her evidence “Junk Science” and the GMC (General Medical Council) – the organization that regulates doctors and tells them how to practice – targeted the doctor herself.
Dr. Donegan ended up being accused of “serious professional misconduct” which could have eventually ended her entire medical career. They served her official papers in 2004, but it took three long years of writing reports and going through hundreds of medical documents and studies before the case was finally heard in 2007."
She was cleared of all of those allegations...
on 17-04-2015 08:15 PM
It is a totally lost cause, but I do, to a degree, understand why persons like yourself have a closed mind as to the efficacy of vaccinations, which have been with us in modern times since Edward Jenner's times in1796.
"Dr. Donegan gave her professional opinion that the safety and efficacy of vaccines has not been well studied and that there were other ways of achieving health than vaccination for these children."
"Not been well studied", absolute nonsense.
" there were other ways of achieving health than vaccination" Our default condition is healthy, vaccines prevent us becoming less healthy.
"More than 732,000 children's lives have been saved in the past 20 years due to routine vaccinations, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In addition, 322 million cases of kids getting sick were prevented"
In threads like this I note that the "occasional" disbeliever, whilst quoting the extremely rare (nutty) "maverick "out there" (and like sites) "overlooks" the overwhelming evidence/opinions from a multitude of internationally accepted medical authorities, to say nothing of vast amounts of peer reviewed papers, from experts in the discipline of immunology .
By all means avoid vaccinations, but do not include your children based on nil clinical knowledge and the rare "nut"
Thankfully the British High Court ruled on just that point, and the jurists concerned were somewhat more knowledgeable apropos the law, and the science involved, than the GMC:
"The fathers application supported by CAFCASS Legal is granted. The court declares that immunisation to the extent set out is in these girls' best interest and should prevail over their mother's opposition."
on 18-04-2015 07:25 PM
monman12 wrote:
It is a totally lost cause, but I do, to a degree, understand why persons like yourself have a closed mind as to the efficacy of vaccinations, which have been with us in modern times since Edward Jenner's times in1796.
Maybe in your mind because you are so convinced by the data the manufacturers, CDC, AWA, WHO etc produce. Even though leading manufacturer Merck is currenttly being accused of releasing fraudulent data.
http://www.businessalabama.com/Business-Alabama/April-2015/Mayberry-vs-Merck-Co/
The complaint is based on the statements by two Merck virologists, Stephen Krahling and Joan Wlochowski, who claim they “witnessed firsthand the improper testing and data falsification in which Merck engaged to artificially inflate the vaccine’s efficacy findings.” Merck repeatedly faked results to show a 95 percent efficacy to get and keep its monopoly, say the former Merck researchers.
"More than 732,000 children's lives have been saved in the past 20 years due to routine vaccinations, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In addition, 322 million cases of kids getting sick were prevented"
There is absolutely no way to prove that statement. For someone so intellectually cynical I find it almost funny that you would use such quotes to add weight to your arguement.
By all means avoid vaccinations, but do not include your children based on nil clinical knowledge and the rare "nut"
https://autismoevaccini.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/vaccin-dc3a9cc3a8s.pdf
Please check appendix 1 SUMMARY TABULATION OF INFANRIX HEXA ADVERSE EVENTS and then tell me that there is absolutely no need for concern when it comes to vaccinating ones children.
Thankfully the British High Court ruled on just that point, and the jurists concerned were somewhat more knowledgeable apropos the law, and the science involved, than the GMC:
"The fathers application supported by CAFCASS Legal is granted. The court declares that immunisation to the extent set out is in these girls' best interest and should prevail over their mother's opposition."
Admittedly that case is problematic because it's a story that actually involves two seperate court cases. One in which she was called in as an expert witness for a couple of families that were having a vaccination war (the side she testified for lost the case), but what she said in her testimony **bleep**ed off the GMC so they took her to court on charges of professional misconduct and they lost.
on 18-04-2015 07:52 PM
You're not being honest in your research. You're taking as gospel the words of the few anti-vacc crusaders and making excuses to discard the evidence of thousands of specialist scientists.
on 19-04-2015 07:57 AM
@gleee58 wrote:You're not being honest in your research. You're taking as gospel the words of the few anti-vacc crusaders and making excuses to discard the evidence of thousands of specialist scientists.
So how could I be more honest in my research do you think?
I dont want to be a peddler of anti-vax propaganda. I really dont. I would love someone to come along and debunk absolutely everything I have said, but try as Monman may, it's just not happening. And I'm not discarding any evidence. I know that vaccines are well studied, as is immunology, infectious diseases etc. But vaccines do not have a squeaky clean reputation when it comes to safety and efficacy. The first measles vaccine, for example, caused all types of problems, atypical measles for example, which caused fevers higher than the measles virus itself, immune serum globulin was administered with the vaccine in an attempt to temper this problem. Is this anti-vax crusader talk or?
And according to a study “Altered Reactivity to Measles Virus: Atypical Measles in Children Previously Immunized with Inactivated Measles Virus Vaccines,” published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, vol. 202, no. 12, December 18, 1967, p. 1080.
Pneumonia is a consistent and prominent finding. Fever is severe and persistent and the degree of headache, when present, suggests a central nervous system involvement. Indeed one patient in our series who was examined by EEG, evidence of disturbed electrical activity of the brain was found, suggestive of encephalopathy. These untoward results of inactivated measles virus immunization was unanticipated.