22-09-2014 08:59 AM - edited 22-09-2014 09:00 AM
03-10-2014 05:13 PM - edited 03-10-2014 05:14 PM
Replying to Boris.
Ok, I will accept that the form of dress under discussion is all the things you say it is in your post above.
I'll accept it . . . . . But, only when Muslim men wear it as well. I mean, why should they object, if all the reasonings in your post are true?
on 03-10-2014 05:21 PM
@iapetus_rocks wrote:Replying to Boris.
Ok, I will accept that the form of dress under discussion is all the things you say it is in your post above.
I'll accept it . . . . . But, only when Muslim men wear it as well. I mean, why should they object, if all the reasonings in your post are true?
mmmm....you mustn't think much of our pm then and I don't say those things, Muslim women have said them - I do agree with their right to wear a burqa or niqab.
abbott on women - gender equality abbott style..
“I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons”
on 03-10-2014 05:33 PM
mmmm....you mustn't think much of our pm then and I don't say those things, Muslim women have said them - I do agree with their right to wear a burqa or niqab.
Pamphlets are Islamically verified by a reputable Shaykh (if you are going to modify any of the pamphlet content, we ask that you get it verified by a Shaykh)
verified by women?
on 03-10-2014 05:45 PM
You have to abide the laws of the country you enter.
There is no Australian law that state a person must not wear garments in public that cover their head/hair/eyes/face.
03-10-2014 05:45 PM - edited 03-10-2014 05:47 PM
@bushies.girl wrote:So Australia yeilds to the minority groups once again.
If that is indeed the case, then it doesn't speak very highly for the intelliegence or political nous of our Prime Miniister, does it? Because the only inference to be drawn form your comment is that you believe he would rather appease a minority of left wing voters than than the silent majority on whom he relies for his political support?
on 03-10-2014 05:59 PM
‘It is oppressive’
Muslim women who choose to wear the burqa do so out of their own free will, believing it is an act of worship and a form of liberation from the objectifi cation of women in modern society. In fact, preventing Muslim women from practising their religion is what is truly oppressive. “Niqab is a very liberating and empowering experience. It allows me to realise my goals by having a career and going to school without worrying about the prying eyes of men. It forces people not to judge me based on my appearance, but on my thoughts and character.” Ms. Flavia, 22, USA.
We all know that many Muslim women experience severe pressure from their fellows (menfolk, clerics, relatives and neighbours) to adopt this dress form.
‘It is backwards’ ‘
The burqa is not part of a short-lived fashion trend. It is a religious garment and act of worship which is not subject to time and therefore, does not become outdated. In fact, the burqa is gaining much popularity in modern societies, especially amongst Western convert women. “My body is my business, and I shouldn’t have to defend what I wear to anyone. The burqa is part of my religion, and the fact that I choose to wear it does not make me any less human.” Ms. Yasmin, 21, Aus.
The burqa is not a religious garment. There is no instruction in the Koran or Hadith or the Sunna which prescribes it.
‘It is intimidating’
While the burqa may appear intimidating to some people, it is not worn with the intention of being threatening or frightening. People are often intimidated by what they have no knowledge of, and the burqa is a piece of clothing which should not warrant fearful reaction. Underneath the burqa is a person simply trying to practise their religion. It is interesting to note that other forms of dress and appearance are no longer considered intimidating, as they have become accepted by the wider community. Tattoos, extremely short dresses, revealing clothes, body piercing and outlandish hairstyles are all examples of this phenomena.
It cannot be denied that many non-Muslims do feel intimidated when encountering this dress form. It is not enough to claim that intimidation is not the intent, and to dismiss peoples' concerns when they say they feel intimidated.
‘It is a form of male domination’
Wearing the burqa does not in any way suggest that women are inferior to men. Claiming that the burqa is a symbol of male domination goes against the fact that many women voluntarily wear the burqa, even though some have no male relatives, or wear it against their male relatives’ wishes.
And many more women, I would contend, wear the burqa involuntarily. They are pressured into wearing it. This is a well-documented fact.
Why don't theMuslim men wear it?
‘It is anti-social’
There is nothing in the burqa that prevents a woman from interacting with other members of society, or from participating in the community. In fact, neither the hijab nor the burqa are required when among women only.
Yes, the burqa is anti-social in as much as it deprives anyone talking to a person who wears it of the subtle facial expressions which are a very large part of communication. The burqa wearer conceals their expressions yet gets to observe the facial expressions of others. it's an unfair advantage and no wonder people feel instinctively uneasy talking to a person whose face they cannot see.
‘It stops women from contributing to society
Wearing a burqa does not stop a woman from contributing to society or from pursuing higher education. There are many women who wear the burqa and are very highly educated, or lead very successful careers. Every woman who wears a burqa is a unique individual, and it is unfair and inaccurate to make a sweeping judgement about all such women based on one item of clothing they have in common.
"Every woman who wears a burqa is a unique individual" . . I'll have to take that on trust as I cannot confirm it through personal experience. How can I know?
From the very advent of Islam, Aisha, the wife of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), was and still is renowned as one of the greatest Islamic scholars to have ever lived.
The fact that she wore the burqa did not, in any way, hinder her from becoming such a prominent scholar or from teaching the men and women of her society.
It didn't help her avoid marriage at the age of six and consummation of that marriage by the age of nine.
And from another pamphlet:
The Hijab is Dignity The Hijab promotes a woman’s femininity rather than suppressing it, and grants women dignity and self-respect for who they are, as opposed to being judged by superficial standards, such as appearance. This grants women the power to shape their own dignity via more meaningful standards, such as righteousness, knowledge and societal contribution, rather than having a consumer society dictate their worth through material means, such as how they look or how much money they earn. In the sight of God, men and women do not have to be identical in order to be equal, and this is reflected in the different roles and responsibilities which apply to each.
The hijab is only a headscarf.
Full-face-covering garments such as the niqab or burqa rob any person who wears them of dignity.
It is a badge of suppression. The claim that women can wear them and feel self-respect is a hard one for me to believe, given what it signifies. The implication that Muslim women are granted " the power to shape their own dignity via more meaningful standards, such as righteousness, knowledge and societal contribution, rather than having a consumer society dictate their worth through material means, such as how they look or how much money they earn." is specious.
Women can do all of those things without having to wear face-covering dress. To even suggest that this dress facilitates women to acheive all this, is to imply that there are problems if they don't.
Now this is the fault of the Muslim men, who treat uncovered women very differently.
on 03-10-2014 06:05 PM
Mother, Daughter, Doll series - Boushra Almutawakel
As an Arab Muslim woman living in Yemen, Boushra Almutawakel wears a hijab, or headscarf, when she leaves the house. Other women prefer the niqab, which covers the face. Some veil their eyes with a gauze and cover their hands.
Almutawakel is exploring the veil’s many faces in an ongoing photographic series – the latest, Mother, Daughter And Doll, shows Almutawakel and her eldest daughter, Shaden Yaqoub, in increasingly covered-up dress/
Although Almutawakel would prefer not to cover up at all, she doesn’t want to add to negative portrayals of the hijab. 'A lot of strong, liberated, working women wear the veil,' she says. 'We are not all weak, oppressed and ignorant.'
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2013/may/17/pictures-of-week-mother-daughter-doll
@*julia*2010 wrote:Boushra Almutawakel - a Yemeni photographer
on 03-10-2014 06:15 PM
We all know that many Muslim women experience severe pressure from their fellows (menfolk, clerics, relatives and neighbours) to adopt this dress form.
We don't all know that. Many of us assume that - which is something quite different..
on 03-10-2014 06:16 PM
Best check that story about the 6 yr old, her father offered her in marriage then, Mahommed turned him down, she was offered again at the time she "became of child bearing age" as was usual in that era.............. and he accepted. She was a scholar and has left much behind for others to read, the truth is probably in there somewhere.
How about Abraham and Sarah? he was 100 and she was 90 when Isaac was born........... and no one questions that, lol
on 03-10-2014 06:18 PM
yes, that's her. thank you for the link.
The final, empty shot is a humorous touch that, along with the doll, asks just how far veiling can go. There are, of course, some men at the extreme end of the religious spectrum who would prefer this level of invisibility – that women in this part of the world didn’t leave the house at all.
'I’m not against veiling – I feel comfortable wearing the hijab in Yemen – but I object to excessive veiling and its idea of the ownership of women,' Almutawakel says. 'It doesn’t really have anything to do with Islam. The solution, instead of covering up women, is to work on the men.'
There are many aspects of veiling that Almutawakel likes. It is liberating, in a way, because it places less emphasis on looks.
Your body becomes more intimate: you get to choose to whom you show it. And it’s practical: some mornings, rushing to get her daughters ready for school, she just keeps her pyjamas on underneath.
That said, the hijab is hot, cumbersome and obstructs her hearing, and it’s hard to recognise other women, particularly in the niqab. Yet this anonymity has its advantages, too: young women can meet men without their families knowing.