Should we teach both Evolution and Intelligent Design in science classes?

[the_bob_delusion]

Should we teach both and let the students decide for themselves?

Go

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@curmu-curmu wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

"That people can choose to remain so wilfully ignorant, in today's educated and enlightened society, should be regarded as a form of mentall illness - and treated accordingly."

Sorry, I didn't have any education and even if I did, my lowly IQ would not have been able to absorb itl.

Perhaps you could help me understand by explaining it to me in words of no more than 2 syllables. 

Let's see now, life came from non-life. A bunch of amino acids that didn't exist, formed together to make a microbial single cell life form - right, got that bit.

.... wind the clock forward a few billion years ... and here we are.

Can you please fill in the missing bits for me because my tiny little brain can't quite handle the rest.

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Do you really expect me to fall for your 'I'm just a poor, uneducated slob' routine?

Sorry, but after reading your posts in other threads, I'm inclined to believe that you are in fact, an erudite, intelligent person - and I'm not about to fall into a petty little trap, nor rise to the bait.

That you choose to portray this homespun, backwards persona, suggests far more than you'd wish it to, as well...

So again, sorry...this little black duck's not falling for it.

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I wasn't portraying anything, I was just agreeing with your definition that anyone who didn't swallow evolution is mentally ill and should be 'treated accordingly'.

So, I take it that you are not going to attempt to 'convert' me? Not even one tiny little bit of your evolutionary FACTS / PROOFS. WHY? Because there are NONE.

[godsandmen]

Rabbit, I don't understand why you would have a problem with life coming out of non-life. The creation account in Genesis actually agrees with that idea:

Genesis 1:24-25 - "And God said, 'Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.' And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind."

Yes, it does say that God created the animals, but what was the mechanism? The earth was the mechanism! The earth itself brought forth life from itself! Nowhere does it say that God breathed life into the animals. No, that life came forth from the earth, apparently by some kind of natural process. Actually, this fits with evolution perfectly. So what's the problem?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

I found that link I was talking about:

http://evolutiondeceit.com/

Just diregard the religious part and go on to the scientific parts like the many chapters on evolution theory and how it falls downunder scrutiny.

Now, I KNOW you won't read it because of the 'closed mind' that you accuse me of having, but I was challenged to read "Origin" and I did, so it's seems fair that you with an open mind would read the other side of the story.

[curmu-curmu]

Sorry - as I said before, I'm not rising to the bait. I've been an avid angler for too long - and I know bait when I see it.

I have no intention of attempting to convert you - there are some things which just can't be done - like proving god exists!

(You might like to interject at this stage, saying 'life from non-life' as well)...but science HAS created the forebearers of life, by combining proteins to create amino acids - the building blocks of life itself! And factor in that science has only been attempting this for around 50 years, also suggests that the science is still only in its infancy. Who knows what we'll achieve when we reach maturity?

There is a plethora of information freely available to research, (and I'd be highly surprised if you haven't partaken of it already),  on the internet for anyone with an open mind - but if one was a closed-minded creationist, a troll - deliberately aiming to provoke argument, or one with serious brain function impairment, then the debate is largely moot.

It's worth repeating again at this juncture...

'That people can choose to remain so wilfully ignorant, in today's educated and enlightened society, should be regarded as a form of mentall illness'.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@godsandmen wrote:

Rabbit, I don't understand why you would have a problem with life coming out of non-life. The creation account in Genesis actually agrees with that idea:

Genesis 1:24-25 - "And God said, 'Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.' And it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the cattle according to their kinds, and everything that creeps upon the ground according to its kind."

Yes, it does say that God created the animals, but what was the mechanism? The earth was the mechanism! The earth itself brought forth life from itself! Nowhere does it say that God breathed life into the animals. No, that life came forth from the earth, apparently by some kind of natural process. Actually, this fits with evolution perfectly. So what's the problem?

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As an ex Minister, you would know that Christianity (and all of the other so called Abrahamic religions) believe that it was God's Holy Spirit that was used in all the creation processes.

Now watch the vultures descend on this post. 

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@curmu-curmu wrote:

Sorry - as I said before, I'm not rising to the bait. I've been an avid angler for too long - and I know bait when I see it.

I have no intention of attempting to convert you - there are some things which just can't be done - like proving god exists!

(You might like to interject at this stage, saying 'life from non-life' as well)...but science HAS created the forebearers of life, by combining proteins to create amino acids - the building blocks of life itself! And factor in that science has only been attempting this for around 50 years, also suggests that the science is still only in its infancy. Who knows what we'll achieve when we reach maturity?

There is a plethora of information freely available to research, (and I'd be highly surprised if you haven't partaken of it already),  on the internet for anyone with an open mind - but if one was a closed-minded creationist, a troll - deliberately aiming to provoke argument, or one with serious brain function impairment, then the debate is largely moot.

It's worth repeating again at this juncture...

'That people can choose to remain so wilfully ignorant, in today's educated and enlightened society, should be regarded as a form of mentall illness'.

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so now I am a troll - deliberately aiming to provoke argument and I have serious brain function impairment? OK. But, hang on, you talking about me or  Bob?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

I have to go out now, so, feel free to talk amongst yourselves.  I'll be back though! Perhaps you can scare up some of that plethora of facts / proof for me while I'm away.

[godsandmen]

As an ex Minister, you would know that Christianity (and all of the other so called Abrahamic religions) believe that it was God's Holy Spirit that was used in all the creation processes.

Yes, that's true. But according to Genesis, if the Holy Spirit was involved at all, it was through a totally earthly mechansm. Who cares what everyone else believes? Isn't the Bible supposed to be the authority?

[curmu-curmu]

Harun Yahya?

Are you serious?

Do you even bother to check the credentials of the authors you extol?

Or do you blindly accept everything on the internet as gospel?

Yahya has been lauded as a dishonest liar, exaggerator, one who bends the truth for his own agenda, and much, much worse!

The only people that accept him as a legitimate author are other creationists - to everyone else, he's a joke!

Not only does he have an agenda to promote religion, he's made some monumental blunders in his book, Atlas of Creation, and been denounced by his contemporaries in Islam!

Here's a video link - showing some of the flaws in his logic and methods. He evn shows a fishing lure as a legitimate insect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBTPne7aVC0#t=269

[the_bob_delusion]

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@punch*drunk wrote:

My kids go to a Christian school and one of their topics at the moment is "Has science killed Christianity". I think they are having a debate about it. I hadn't taken too much notice of the subject but after reading this thread I may just ask them how it went and what was raised on iether side of the discussion.

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I'm curious too what the consensus is?