Shroud of Turin shown amid new research

[catsnknots]

This is something I would love to go and see... don't know if it is real or not but I still think it would be amazing. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/shroud-of-turin-shown-amid-new-research/story-fn3dxix6-1226609705959

THE Shroud of Turin has gone on display for a special TV appearance amid new research disputing claims it's a medieval fake and purporting to date the linen some say was Jesus' burial cloth to around the time of his death.

Pope Francis sent a special video message to the event in Turin's cathedral, but made no claim that the image on the shroud of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ was really that of Jesus. He called the cloth an "icon," not a relic - an important distinction.

"This image, impressed upon the cloth, speaks to our heart and moves us to climb the hill of Calvary, to look upon the wood of the Cross, and to immerse ourselves in the eloquent silence of love," he said.

"This disfigured face resembles all those faces of men and women marred by a life which does not respect their dignity, by war and violence which afflict the weakest.

"And yet, at the same time, the face in the Shroud conveys a great peace; this tortured body expresses a sovereign majesty."

Many experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that date it to the 13th or 14th century. However, some have suggested the dating results might have been skewed by contamination and have called for a larger sample to be analysed.

The Vatican has tiptoed around just what the cloth is, calling it a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering while making no claim to its authenticity.

The 4.3-metre-long, one metre-wide cloth is kept in a bulletproof, climate-controlled case in Turin's cathedral, but is only rarely open to the public. The last time was in 2010 when more than two million people lined up to pray before it and then-Pope Benedict XVI visited.

It was only the second time the shroud has gone on display specifically for a TV audience; the first was in 1973 at the request of Pope Paul VI, the Vatican said.

The display also coincided with the release of a book based on new scientific tests on the shroud that researchers say date the cloth to the 1st century.

The research in "The Mystery of the Shroud," by Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua and journalist Saverio Gaeta, is based on chemical and mechanical tests on fibres of material extracted for the carbon-dating research.

An article with the findings is expected to be submitted for peer-review, news reports say.

[azureline**]

try this one...

Luke 24:39

[azureline**]

Belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is essential doctrine in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Catechism.......you do know that not all Christians are Catholic don't you Bob?

[the_bob_delusion]

Belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is essential doctrine in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Catechism.......you do know that not all Christians are Catholic don't you Bob?

Yes I do. I was trying to generalize both Catholic and all denomination of Christian with  different interpretation of the resurrection which exists. Just as you have Catholics who believe in eating the actual body of Christ and those who take it as a metaphor. Are you telling me the latter are no longer Catholics??

Belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is essential doctrine in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Catechism

Maybe centuries ago, but with better theological understanding the views amongst Catholic and Christians are more liberal now(since they don't want to lose anymore members.) Even Pope Ratzinger doesn't even believe in the bodily resurrection. 

Show me where you have to believe in the bodily resurrection of JC to be a Catholic. If you're right, a large number of them are no longer Catholics. 

Godsandman is gonna come in later with some explanation.

Even the Earliest Gospel Mark don't even mention anything about the resurrection. Resurrection Story is something that came centuries after the death of JC. But my response is whether you're a Catholic or CHristian, you can have different view on the resurrection.

I forgot to mention also the belief that Jesus came back in a new body. 

[the_bob_delusion]

try this one...

Luke 24:39

I can find just as many versus that contradict that one or interpret yours differently. Oh the beauty of the bible. You can't lose. I'll leave that job to Godsandman. 

When did you suddenly become a bible literalist Quilts. Do you also believe in "The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people."

Matthew: 27:50

No self respecting theologian believes that, do you?

[azureline**]

Show me where you have to believe in the bodily resurrection of JC to be a Catholic

Bob, you really need to stop rearranging what I say to mean what you want it to......

Belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is essential doctrine in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Catechism

I am not sure how I can show you that......unless you have a Catholic Catechism with you......

[the_bob_delusion]

Are you telling me all Catholics share that belief then? And if they don't they're not considered a Catholics? Tell me where the Catholic church enforces that rule or makes that distinction between catholics and non catholics. It really shouldn't be that hard Quilts if you're right. 

There's a difference between when the Catholic church was in power centures ago when they  forced that view on people and what people actually believe based on theological and scholarly knowledge now?

[the_great_she_elephant]

Tell me where the Catholic church enforces that rule or makes that distinction between catholics and non catholics

What do you mean by "enforce" Bob. Belief in the resurrection is, Az has said an essential doctrine of the Catholic Church, but In the end, what people who describe themselves as Catholics actually believe is between them and their consciences; and short of sending out a questionnaire to every practicing Catholic and excommunicating anyone who gives the wrong answers I don't really see how the Church can "enforce" anything.

[*crikey*mate*]

You do know the definition of religion right??? It's a set of beliefs based on NO EVIDENCE. or faith. Science is not based on Faith. 

Religion actually claims to explain the unexplainable until science gets it. How does that mean they're the same thing??? 

If your definition of God is some force or energy, that's fine. 

You need to define God before I can actually have a discussion with you. If GOd is simply a force we don't know about then it may be consistent with science. 

a lot of different religions and belief systems around Bob, but not one of them has yet shown how we came to be here. Sure we each have our own beliefs or theories, but no empirical evidence. However, Science has proven or disproven many theories and beliefs through the centuries - but Science starts with a belief in something - a hypothesis - and then builds on that to provide proof or myth.

"something" started this whole little party - whether it be a collision of atoms, adam and eve, some sort of energy or undefined power - Christian man calls this God, because in his race to define and understand it - that seemed like a good name I guess, but other religions have different "Gods" or different sources and explanations of how this all started, and one thing for sure, all the different belief systems have something in common, "somehow, something got it all started" - they just have a different way of explaining it or understanding it - a different way of trying to make sense of that which man still cannot understand.

Atheism is a belief system based on no evidence as well - and all science is initially based on Faith - but they call it a hypothesis - sounds a bit more academic that way I guess;-)

So look at it all from the perspective that the different belief systems (including religions) all offer up hypothesis' which Science will one day explain.

[the_bob_delusion]

Tell me where the Catholic church enforces that rule or makes that distinction between catholics and non catholics

What do you mean by "enforce" Bob. Belief in the resurrection is, Az has said an essential doctrine of the Catholic Church, but In the end, what people who describe themselves as Catholics actually believe is between them and their consciences; and short of sending out a questionnaire to every practicing Catholic and excommunicating anyone who gives the wrong answers I don't really see how the Church can "enforce" anything.

Actually she said belief only in the BODILY resurrection. I offered several alternatives of resurrection interpretation.

Doesn't have to be enforce, then show me where it's written by the Catholic CHurch that belief in the "bodily" resurrection is a criteria for being a Catholic. 

[the_great_she_elephant]

Atheism is a belief system based on no evidence as well - and all science is initially based on Faith - but they call it a hypothesis - sounds a bit more academic that way I guess.

Atheism is not a belief system it is a lack of belief. And while scientific experiment may be based on initial hypotheses, the whole purpose of science is to test these hypotheses and either prove or disprove them.