Shroud of Turin shown amid new research

[catsnknots]

This is something I would love to go and see... don't know if it is real or not but I still think it would be amazing. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/shroud-of-turin-shown-amid-new-research/story-fn3dxix6-1226609705959

THE Shroud of Turin has gone on display for a special TV appearance amid new research disputing claims it's a medieval fake and purporting to date the linen some say was Jesus' burial cloth to around the time of his death.

Pope Francis sent a special video message to the event in Turin's cathedral, but made no claim that the image on the shroud of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ was really that of Jesus. He called the cloth an "icon," not a relic - an important distinction.

"This image, impressed upon the cloth, speaks to our heart and moves us to climb the hill of Calvary, to look upon the wood of the Cross, and to immerse ourselves in the eloquent silence of love," he said.

"This disfigured face resembles all those faces of men and women marred by a life which does not respect their dignity, by war and violence which afflict the weakest.

"And yet, at the same time, the face in the Shroud conveys a great peace; this tortured body expresses a sovereign majesty."

Many experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that date it to the 13th or 14th century. However, some have suggested the dating results might have been skewed by contamination and have called for a larger sample to be analysed.

The Vatican has tiptoed around just what the cloth is, calling it a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering while making no claim to its authenticity.

The 4.3-metre-long, one metre-wide cloth is kept in a bulletproof, climate-controlled case in Turin's cathedral, but is only rarely open to the public. The last time was in 2010 when more than two million people lined up to pray before it and then-Pope Benedict XVI visited.

It was only the second time the shroud has gone on display specifically for a TV audience; the first was in 1973 at the request of Pope Paul VI, the Vatican said.

The display also coincided with the release of a book based on new scientific tests on the shroud that researchers say date the cloth to the 1st century.

The research in "The Mystery of the Shroud," by Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua and journalist Saverio Gaeta, is based on chemical and mechanical tests on fibres of material extracted for the carbon-dating research.

An article with the findings is expected to be submitted for peer-review, news reports say.

[*crikey*mate*]

The Apostle's Creed (Not just for Catholics;-) )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles'_Creed

But I draw your attention to the 5th Article....

"He descended into hell, and on the third day He rose again from the dead."

The hell Jesus descended into wasn't the hell of the damned where Christians believe that the devil resides. Hell was also a word that Jews and the Ancient Christians used to describe the place of the dead, both the good and the bad. Before salvation and redemption, the souls of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, et al, all had to wait in the abode of the dead, until the Redeemer could open the gates of Heaven once more.

They weren't paroled from Hell for good behaviour.

This article affirms that on the third day he rose, meaning Jesus came back from the dead of his own Divine power. He wasn't just clinically dead for a few minutes - he was dead dead. More than a resuscitated corpse - Jesus possessed a glorified and risen body.

Then Article 6 speaks of Jesus' ascension into Heaven where he seateth at the right hand of the Father. 

The ascension reminds the faithful that after the human and the divine natures of Christ were united in the Incarnation, they could never be seperated. I.e. after the saving death and Resurrection, Jesus didn't just dump his body as if he didn't need it anymore.

Catholicism teaches that his human body will exist forever. Where Jesus went, body and soul, into Heaven, the faithful hope one day to follow.

[the_great_she_elephant]

Actually she said belief only in the BODILY resurrection

If we are going to play semantics,Bob,  then resurrection explicitly implies a bodily return to life.

res·ur·rec·tion  (rz-rkshn)n.1. The act of rising from the dead or returning to life.

2. The state of one who has returned to life

.3. The act of bringing back to practice, notice, or use; revival.

4. Resurrection Christianitya. The rising again of Jesus on the third day after the Crucifixion.b. The rising again of the dead at the Last Judgment.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/resurrection

 In Christian terms A spiritual resurrection is just not possible because the soul - or spirit-  is immortal and something which is not dead cannot be resurrected (brought back to life).

[*crikey*mate*]

Atheism is a belief system based on no evidence as well - and all science is initially based on Faith - but they call it a hypothesis - sounds a bit more academic that way I guess.

Atheism is not a belief system it is a lack of belief. And while scientific experiment may be based on initial hypotheses, the whole purpose of science is to test these hypotheses and either prove or disprove them.

????

Atheism is a lack of belief in what exactly? breathing? eating? surely they must believe in something? even if it is that they believe that nothing is true until it is proven.

so then why is it so big a stretch to go from these belief systems providing the hypotheses that Science will or won't one day prove?

can ya see where I'm comin' from?????

[*crikey*mate*]

Actually she said belief only in the BODILY resurrection

If we are going to play semantics,Bob,  then resurrection explicitly implies a bodily return to life.

res·ur·rec·tion  (rz-rkshn)n.1. The act of rising from the dead or returning to life.

2. The state of one who has returned to life

.3. The act of bringing back to practice, notice, or use; revival.

4. Resurrection Christianitya. The rising again of Jesus on the third day after the Crucifixion.b. The rising again of the dead at the Last Judgment.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/resurrection

 In Christian terms A spiritual resurrection is just not possible because the soul - or spirit-  is immortal and something which is not dead cannot be resurrected (brought back to life).

see the Apostle's Creed above

[the_great_she_elephant]

Atheism is a lack of belief in what exactly? breathing? eating? surely they must believe in something? even if it is that they believe that nothing is true until it is proven.

a lack of belief in God.

Definition of theism: belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe:

Definition of atheism disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

[*crikey*mate*]

Show me where you have to believe in the bodily resurrection of JC to be a Catholic

Bob, you really need to stop rearranging what I say to mean what you want it to......

Belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is essential doctrine in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Catechism

I am not sure how I can show you that......unless you have a Catholic Catechism with you......

Tell him to google the Apostle's creed

[the_bob_delusion]

????

Atheism is a lack of belief in what exactly? breathing? eating? surely they must believe in something? even if it is that they believe that nothing is true until it is proven.

so then why is it so big a stretch to go from these belief systems providing the hypotheses that Science will or won't one day prove?

can ya see where I'm comin' from?????

No. 

Let me just quickly clear a few things. Atheism just means lack of a belief in God. They have other beliefs. for example you dont' believe in Unicorns. An Aunicornist. Doesn't mean you don't believe in anything else. 

There's a difference between claiming a hypotheses vs claiming it to be true. 

Oh, atheism and science are not the same thing. 

[the_bob_delusion]

Actually she said belief only in the BODILY resurrection

If we are going to play semantics,Bob,  then resurrection explicitly implies a bodily return to life.

res·ur·rec·tion  (rz-rkshn)n.1. The act of rising from the dead or returning to life.

2. The state of one who has returned to life

.3. The act of bringing back to practice, notice, or use; revival.

4. Resurrection Christianitya. The rising again of Jesus on the third day after the Crucifixion.b. The rising again of the dead at the Last Judgment.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/resurrection

 In Christian terms A spiritual resurrection is just not possible because the soul - or spirit-  is immortal and something which is not dead cannot be resurrected (brought back to life).

It's a theological debate here. If you want to be really technical. Let's say did Jesus bodily rise from the dead instead of bodily resurrected. This is more a semantic thing. I thought I was clear on the different types of belief in resurrection. 

[*crikey*mate*]

[

 Just as you have Catholics who believe in eating the actual body of Christ and those who take it as a metaphor. Are you telling me the latter are no longer Catholics??

We do? Are you talking about the Holy Eucharist? The transubstantiation?Pretty sure that the most Catholics realize that Jesus was probably not a fat man and thus couldn't possibly be consuming his actual body at every Mass that's been said throughout history.....

Belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is essential doctrine in the Catholic Church.

Catholic Catechism

Maybe centuries ago, but with better theological understanding the views amongst Catholic and Christians are more liberal now(since they don't want to lose anymore members.) Even Pope Ratzinger doesn't even believe in the bodily resurrection. 

How do you know this? Show me. A Pope has seriously denounced the Apostle's Creed?

Show me where you have to believe in the bodily resurrection of JC to be a Catholic. If you're right, a large number of them are no longer Catholics. 

Godsandman is gonna come in later with some explanation.

Even the Earliest Gospel Mark don't even mention anything about the resurrection. Resurrection Story is something that came centuries after the death of JC. But my response is whether you're a Catholic or CHristian, you can have different view on the resurrection.

The resurrection is spoken of in Matthew, Mark and Luke and in 1 Corinthians

I forgot to mention also the belief that Jesus came back in a new body. 

Who believe's THAT? For Catholics at least, Easter Sunday is when Christ REUNITED with his body and blood, rose from the dead, and established the promise of eternal life.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

I watched a documentary a few nights ago where the guy replicated the shroud - using a 'camera obscura' method (like what she-elephant said above).

Now you're going to ask me the name of the Documentary and the guy, aren't you? 

I don't remember. Google it.

Goodnight Bob.