Shroud of Turin shown amid new research

[catsnknots]

This is something I would love to go and see... don't know if it is real or not but I still think it would be amazing. 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/shroud-of-turin-shown-amid-new-research/story-fn3dxix6-1226609705959

THE Shroud of Turin has gone on display for a special TV appearance amid new research disputing claims it's a medieval fake and purporting to date the linen some say was Jesus' burial cloth to around the time of his death.

Pope Francis sent a special video message to the event in Turin's cathedral, but made no claim that the image on the shroud of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ was really that of Jesus. He called the cloth an "icon," not a relic - an important distinction.

"This image, impressed upon the cloth, speaks to our heart and moves us to climb the hill of Calvary, to look upon the wood of the Cross, and to immerse ourselves in the eloquent silence of love," he said.

"This disfigured face resembles all those faces of men and women marred by a life which does not respect their dignity, by war and violence which afflict the weakest.

"And yet, at the same time, the face in the Shroud conveys a great peace; this tortured body expresses a sovereign majesty."

Many experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that date it to the 13th or 14th century. However, some have suggested the dating results might have been skewed by contamination and have called for a larger sample to be analysed.

The Vatican has tiptoed around just what the cloth is, calling it a powerful symbol of Christ's suffering while making no claim to its authenticity.

The 4.3-metre-long, one metre-wide cloth is kept in a bulletproof, climate-controlled case in Turin's cathedral, but is only rarely open to the public. The last time was in 2010 when more than two million people lined up to pray before it and then-Pope Benedict XVI visited.

It was only the second time the shroud has gone on display specifically for a TV audience; the first was in 1973 at the request of Pope Paul VI, the Vatican said.

The display also coincided with the release of a book based on new scientific tests on the shroud that researchers say date the cloth to the 1st century.

The research in "The Mystery of the Shroud," by Giulio Fanti of the University of Padua and journalist Saverio Gaeta, is based on chemical and mechanical tests on fibres of material extracted for the carbon-dating research.

An article with the findings is expected to be submitted for peer-review, news reports say.

[godsandmen]

Appropriate for Easter, here are three excellent articles by Dr. James Tabor on the whole subject of resurrection, and on how Paul's earliest view of the resurrection of Jesus in a spiritual body became transformed in the later gospels into a physical, bodily resurrection:

What Really Happened Easter Morning

Why People are Confused about the earliest Christian View of Resurrection of the Dead?

Easter Morning: Sorting Through the Sources and Traditions

Tabor explains it all very well, and for those who are interested I highly recommend these articles.

James D. Tabor is Chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte

[rabbitearbandicoot]

godsandmen, read all three of those links - they all essentially say the same thing and with the same aim ie to make believers question their faith.

I also read his link to the lost gospel of peter.  He seems to place more credence on this lost scroll with it's "walking-talking cross" than he does with any of the others. That alone is enough for me to reject anything this man says. 

[godsandmen]

Only a believer would claim that his motive is to "make believers question their faith". Nothing could be further from the truth. He's simply expounding on what the earliest Christians believe, and his arguments make a lot of sense. They also represent the views of many Bible scholars, so it's not like it's some fringe theory. His use of the gospel of Peter makes sense too, in that it was an early document - earlier than some of the books included in the NT. Just because all those extra-canonical writings did not make it into the canon doesn't mean they don't have value. They represent early views every bit as much as the canonical books do. I think he adequately shows that the earliest Christian belief about the resurrection of Jesus is that it was a spiritual, not a physical one. At least you read it though. Most believers wouldn't even bother. Tabor is a good scholar, but like all the best scholars, he's not an inerrantist, and that's the real problem believers have with that type of scholarship.

[**meep**]

To answer Bob's question as to what Catholics believe:

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth,

of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God,

born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,

begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

Through him all things were made.

For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven,

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.

For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,

he suffered death and was buried,

and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead

and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,

who proceeds from the Father and the Son,

who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,

who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins

and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead

and the life of the world to come.

[azureline**]

Thanks.

I think the confusion arises because they usually show the head pic part more often then the whole piece? I only recently saw a pic of the whole thing, laid out showing back and front but I do also recall the comments about other cloths in the tomb?

[lakeland27]

You mean what Science has proven?

Was it religion or science that forced the view "the world is flat"? 

that view was caused by ignorance, and everyday observations. an apple will sit on a table.. but it rolls off a curved surface.

[catsnknots]

I have been to many art exhibitions... 

I got goose bumps viewing paintings made by masters that were hundreds of years old... the explanations of how they did it, the new techniques, why the paintings were possibly controversial...  the story behind the masters... 

I think that the shroud would evoke those same sort of emotions.... 

I think it has an amazing history, has many stories and explanations to go with it and would be a very memorable event... 

[azureline**]

Yes, I feel the same way, especially about old buildings and artworks and how they did them so well to be still surviving today.

I could have spent months in the British Museum.....and The Vatican.

[*crikey*mate*]

that view was caused by ignorance, and everyday observations. an apple will sit on a table.. but it rolls off a curved surface.

 I agree LL. (seriously)

It was caused by a man not yet understanding the existence of? or true nature of gravity in the 1400's. I believe it was Newton in the 1800's (could be wrong - it's been a long time) that started the ball rolling (or is that the apple falling?) with man's true understanding of gravity - not sure if Einstein fits into that - or did he just do the whole energy and motion/force thing and the 4D net thingy of space and time?

[catsnknots]

Yes, I feel the same way, especially about old buildings and artworks and how they did them so well to be still surviving today.

I could have spent months in the British Museum.....and The Vatican.

I was listening to a show on ABC national radio and apparently they chopped off all the private bits from the male statues in the Vatican City.... a journo had gone and seen and wondered what they did with the chopped off bits. 

he and written to the officials at the church to ask but got no reply... he wrote an article on it and some official in the city wrote to him and told him that yes indeed they have kept the bits in a box... stored somewhere safe.. 

that made me laugh..