The Shroud of Turin

[*crikey*mate*]

I am part way through reading a fiction book featuring The Shroud, and it has sparked my curiosity.

What do you know?

What do you think?

Me? I want to believe that it is real, but I'm not convinced one way or the other just yet, but I am interested in discussing it with anyone else interested in doing so.

 For something of such historical significance to truly exist would be amazing.

[**meep**]

Sorry, didnt see your post, Az.   (distracted by watching the tennis final)

[the_great_she_elephant]

why are you trashing this thread arguing with the religious nut? I thought you were supposed to be smart?

Dear Nev, if my posting is driving you bats,

There's a neat little button right under my stats;

Just click on that button, I'll vanish from sight,

And your posts can be 'elephant free' every night.

(or alternatively, you could always hit the 'report' button and ask the mods to delete it.)

[nevynreally]

Why are you so quick to judge someone as a religious nut?? I think at least he is an honest believer who truly believes what he reads in the bible. I rather that than the hypocrites. If you ask most Christians if God ask them to kill their kids would they do it. If you even doubt God, you're really an atheist. At least the other Bob has no doubt in his head.

Hit home, did i?

Interesting question **meep** they couldn't see the real shroud until it was photographed and the negative exposed. Based on the fact the nail holes where through the wrist, not the palms which was depicted in all paintings (I think) prior to the negative image.

[nevynreally]

Dear Nev, if my posting is driving you bats,

There's a neat little button right under my stats;

Just click on that button, I'll vanish from sight,

And your posts can be 'elephant free' every night.

(or alternatively, you could always hit the 'report' button and ask the mods to delete it.)

Dear she_ele. 

So I was correct.

[azureline**]

This thread reminds me of trips in the car with my children......

[*crikey*mate*]

If the cloth was keep out of sunlight, ie a box and free from moisture and rarely removed from box it is possible for material to last a long time (hundreds of years).  The only fabric that would come to close to the alleged age of the shroud would be cloth from Eyptian tombs.

There was a fire in 1532 in the chapel where the shroud was kept.  The casket that held the shroud was saved although melted beyond repair, the shroud itself only suffered some scorch marks and a hole where some molten metal had fallen onto it.

Excellent! I had read about the fire, so is this when it went to the Vatican? I wonder why the Vatican had not accrued possession of it much earlier in history?

I mean, it has been documented to exist from the 600ADs, yet something which I would presume to be of incredible significance to the Vatican, was not sought despite them allegedly owning many of the most expensive and rare items in history...

Did the Vatican confiscate it? Win it at auction? Was it donated?

[nevynreally]

Did the Vatican confiscate it? Win it at auction? Was it donated?

It was privately owned by influential families prior to being donated or bequeathed  to the Vatican

[azureline**]

1983

The House of Savoy gave the shroud to the Holy See.

1988

Postage-stamp-sized pieces of the shroud were sent to three different laboratories for radio-carbon testing. All three labs dated the shroud to between 1260 and 1390. The Catholic Church accepted this, announced that it was not authentic, but could continue to be an object of devotion. The shroud is widely considered a medieval fraud.

1997

Another fire (possibly arson) threatened the shroud, but it was rescued from further damage by a fireman.

1997

Two Israeli scientists said that the shroud could not be from Jesus' time because the material could not have remained intact for 2,000 years.

1998

Pope John Paul II said of the shroud, "Since we're not dealing with a matter of faith, the church can't pronounce itself on such questions. It entrusts to scientists the tasks of continuing to investigate, to reach adequate answers to the questions connected to this shroud."

2000

Shroud is publicly exhibited for the 2000 Jubilee.

2000

An archaeologist discovered shroud-wrapped remains in a Jerusalem tomb, and the shroud was dated to the first century.

2002

The Holy See had the shroud restored. In the process, the cloth backing and 30 patches were removed, enabling the reverse side to be viewed for the first time.

4/9/ 2004

A National Geographic article suggested that the samples tested in 1988 came from a medieval repair job on the shroud.

4/13/ 2004

Giulio Fanti and Roberto Maggiolo of the University of Padua published an article in the peer-reviewed Journal of Optics describing a second, fainter image on the reverse side of the shroud.

2025

Next scheduled public exhibition of the Shroud of Turin.

I was unaware that the shroud reverse side was unseen prior to 2000

[nevynreally]

I was unaware that the shroud reverse side was unseen prior to 2000

I'm pretty sure the negative was discovered in 1968?  Not using google though.

[azureline**]

Unseen= not displayed, sorry.

from the timeline

5/28/ 1898

Amateur Italian photographer Secondo Pia took the first photo of the shroud. It was observed that the images on the shroud seem to resemble photographic negatives rather than positives.