The terror raids have begun!

[love*today]

Looks huge on the news.....interesting that a neighbour has stated that she knew the guy for many years and he seemed ordinary, now you wouldn't expect them to walk around with a sign would you lol

[the_great_she_elephant]

There is one aspect of this that gives me great concern. the operation involved more than 800 Fedral Police officers, A large number of premises were raided, 15 people were detained and 1 has been charded with terrorism.

If that one man is proven guilty and gaoled then, yes, we can all feel that little bit safer - but has anyone given any thought to the 14 who were released, their families and those other families whose homes were raided without anyone being detained?

When the FP conduct a raid, they don't simply knock on your door and ask permission to come in and search your house. The raids are deliberately carried out with a maximum of intimidation  - in this case, I believe - at 4.00 AM when the householders would have been fast asleep in bed. Doors are smashed, rooms trashed, household effects broken - and on top of that a nightmare of terror and confusionis created for anyone, including children who is in the house at this time.

How do you think these people are feeling? Put yourself in their shoes. You are an ordinary family going about your day to day affairs. Suddenly armed men burstointo your house in the early hours of the morning, force you out of bed, shout confusing orders at you, terrify your children trash your home, handcuff  a member of your family and drag him off to gaol. What lasting impression would it ake on you?

Would you think Gee aren't our Federal Police wonderful people, tooking after our national security so well?

What would you say next time some young hotheadi n your local mosque  starts badmouthing the Australian Government? would you be inclined to agree with him?

We may have taken one potential terrorist out of circulation, but how many more may our heavy-handed tactics have created while doing so?

[icyfroth]

ermmm....they were'nt just banging on random doors, She-el. They were banging on doors where suspects that had been under surveillance for some time were living with their families.

Not just hotheads mouthing off at the Aus government, either. Young men with known ties to ISIL and ppl who had previously plotted against the government and now serving time in gaol.

I beleive they were also equipped with digging equipment. Looking for those missing 5 rocket launchers perhaps? 

Oh and and you're saying the police going about their business of lawmaking have incited more dangerous hotheads that could now be an added threat to us?

Doesn't that prove what's been said all along, that they believe the law of Islam to be supreme over Aus Federal laws?

[the_great_she_elephant]

ermmm....they were'nt just banging on random doors, She-el. They were banging on doors where suspects that had been under surveillance for some time were living with their families.

How many houses did they raid? How many men did they "detain" how many men were eventually charged? what is your definition of random?

[alexander*beetle]

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@kilroy_is_here wrote:
I would rather the arrest 15 inicent people and release them and have nobody die than have them not undertake the raids and have people needlessly die in an act of terrorism

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And what if one of those 15 were you or your family? What if you were held indefinately,  your family traumatized, home damaged, lost your job? It's all good and fine to say that if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about. There are often huge ramifications that follow on when someone is accused of doing something they havent. 

I agree if they have solid evidence of a potential crime then good and fine. But unless they have enough to charge them on then it is not right. Look at what is happening in Qld with the bikies. You only have to be seen to talking to a suspected criminal and you can be locked up. 

[icyfroth]

What's your definition of "relevant"?

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@alexander*beetle wrote:

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@kilroy_is_here wrote:
I would rather the arrest 15 inicent people and release them and have nobody die than have them not undertake the raids and have people needlessly die in an act of terrorism

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And what if one of those 15 were you or your family? What if you were held indefinately,  your family traumatized, home damaged, lost your job? It's all good and fine to say that if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about. There are often huge ramifications that follow on when someone is accused of doing something they havent. 

I agree if they have solid evidence of a potential crime then good and fine. But unless they have enough to charge them on then it is not right. Look at what is happening in Qld with the bikies. You only have to be seen to talking to a suspected criminal and you can be locked up. 

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Here is one good example.

http://www.amnesty.org.au/hrs/comments/dr_mohamed_haneef/

[the_great_she_elephant]

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@icyfroth wrote:

What's your definition of "relevant"?

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A comment which pertaains to the subject under discussion - in this instance, The OP of this thread.

[icyfroth]

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the_great_she_elephant wrote:

ermmm....they were'nt just banging on random doors, She-el. They were banging on doors where suspects that had been under surveillance for some time were living with their families.

How many houses did they raid? How many men did they "detain" how many men were eventually charged? what is your definition of random?

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Here you go She-el

Media Release: Clarification of Operation Appleby numbers

Release Date: Saturday, September 20 2014, 02:42 PM

The JCTT wishes to clarify numbers with regard to the status of Operation Appleby.

In total, 16 people were detained on Thursday September 18th.

When the JCTT held a Media Conference at 9.30am, the figure was 15, but there was one further man detained later during the operation that day to bring the total to 16.

This figure includes a 21 year old woman issued with a Future Court Attendance Notice and a 17 year old girl who was dealt with under the Young Offenders Act.

Both women were at a Guildford address. The 21 year old will appear at Parramatta Local Court on October 17.

Ten men were subsequently released on Thursday September 18th.

On Friday September 19th, three men who were subject to Preventative Detention Orders (PDO) were also released when those orders expired.

One man remains bailed refused after appearing in court on Thursday September 18th.

and :

My definition of random? In this case, any second or third or fouth door in any street in any given suburb not necessarily under suspicion. I don't believe that was the case:

In barely 24 hours, about 870 police officers were mobilised and raids were planned on more than 27 homes in two states with the aim of detaining and questioning 17 men. Tony Abbott was briefed on Wednesday evening.

In the pre-dawn light yesterday they swooped. With helicopters hovering overhead, dozens of police raided homes across Sydney and Brisbane. Operation Appleby had broken open the single largest cell of Islamic State sympathisers in Australia and had almost certainly thwarted a terrorist attack.

[the_great_she_elephant]

In barely 24 hours, about 870 police officers were mobilised and raids were planned on more than 27 homes in two states with the aim of detaining and questioning 17 men. Tony Abbott was briefed on Wednesday evening.

In the pre-dawn light yesterday they swooped. With helicopters hovering overhead, dozens of police raided homes across Sydney and Brisbane.Operation Appleby had broken open the single largest cell of Islamic State sympathisers in Australia and had almost certainly thwarted a terrorist attack.

So, with helicopters hovering overhead 870 police officers (presumably in riot gear and with guns drawn, forced their way into the homes of 27 sleeping families, detained 17 men eventually charged just one and probably seriously alienated hundreds.

[icyfroth]

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So, with helicopters hovering overhead 870 police officers (presumably in riot gear and with guns drawn, forced their way into the homes of 27 sleeping families,

With good reason

detained 17 men eventually charged just one and probably seriously alienated hundreds.

So we have reason go be afraid of enforcing our laws because we may be alienating a certain cross-section of the population?

By that definition, police shouldn't raid homes for pornographic material because they may alienate human trafficking rings and cause them to retaliate by increasing their activities?

Or drug traffickers?

Or home invasion gangs?

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Gotta go be back later