Third-wave feminism

[k0llectable5]

What has happened to this movement and ideology? Is it sexist to expect teen girls to behave like ladies and boys like men? Why are some girls picking fights with boys in the school yard, literally pushing and shoving and taunting like "C'mon have a go, you wanna fight" and doing this day after day and if the boy reacts in anyway he is labelled a girl basher, even when it's the girl that throws the first or only punch... And men, why so many feminine men these days? And with movements like MGTOW (Men going their own way), which has spawned in retalliation to thrid-wave feminism,  are we witnessing the destruction of society as we know it? 

[k0llectable5]

Men these days are; for want of a better word "softer" and all this empowerment has made women "harder. The rape comment was just an attempt at driving home my point that there are women these days that do not have one "lady like" bone in their body. I'm not trying to compare the rape of women by violent men to the rape of men by violent women. But seeing as we've gone there, for you to insinuate that men who get raped by women don't even get physically hurt (in the same way women do) is somewhat dismissive IMO. What about the large percentage of men who are raped by other men, do you think that a man would go "easier" on another man while raping him, doubtful...

[***super_nova***]

The discussion is about feminism, the need to continue to strive for equality, the fact that women are being still brutilised by men and are dying in hands of their violent spouses.  You keep bringing up some questionable stats about that men get sometimes also attacked. 

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@3ksandpj wrote:
Men these days are; for want of a better word "softer" and all this empowerment has made women "harder.

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Just because women do not allow themselves to be pushed around the way they used to be does not make them harder, just stronger.

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@3ksandpj wrote:
You can say that about the MGTOW men and thats okay because they are men.  If i called the modern feminists a bunch of losers though, I'm sure someone will take offence... 

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I can say that about MGTOW men because I looked at the things they post on their websites.  They are bunch of guys unable to form meaningful relationship because they dream of a woman who looks like a porn star, and will be a good obedient housewife.  They also post really nasty and insulting stuff about women.  As I said, I am not surprised that women do not exactly flock to them. 

[the_great_she_elephant]

there are women these days that do not have one "lady like" bone in their body

What exactly is your definition of 'ladylike'

Were the wellt-to-do women who chained themselves to railings and went on hunger strike in gaol in order to win the right to vote 'ladylike'

The whole concept of a 'lady' was a woman who didn't need to work, who was kept by her father until she married and then by her husband until she died. If she went to school she was taught to read and write and then subjects such as  music, needlework, painting and how to run a home. and manage her servants. Nothing else was considered necessary."Be good, sweet maid, and let who will be clever" (Charles Kingsley.)  The only  acceptable career open to her was  marriage and  If circumstances forced her to earn a living she became  a governess and all her peers both pitied and looked down on her. (read Jane Austen) 

That is what being  ladylike really meant, your concept is just a fantasy.

[***super_nova***]

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@3ksandpj wrote:
. What about the large percentage of men who are raped by other men, do you think that a man would go "easier" on another man while raping him, doubtful...

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Maybe the motive is different but when did you last time heard of violent rape of a man?

In any case.  You seem to blame everything on feminists.  There is no connection between feminism and rape and definitely NOT a connection between feminism and gay rape.

But if you wonder why we need feminism; A bake sale sparks rape threats -

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-05/rosewarne-a-bake-sale-sparks-rape-threats/7300172?WT.mc_id=Inn...

[k0llectable5]

I wonder how many teenage girls do you actually know. So many these days play rough, use foul language, pick fights with boys, sleep around, get suspended from school for bullying, send nude pics of themselves to boys, identify with third-wave feminism.

It is so not about equality anymore. I think we'd all be pressed to find any real examples of inequality these days. It's about abolishing traditional gender roles. It's not healthy for kids, they have no boundaries and are confused about appropriate ways to behave.

[the_great_she_elephant]

. It's about abolishing traditional gender roles.

So what are these traditional gender roles? The ones that decree that if a girl 'sleeps around she's the town bicycle, if a boy sleeps around he's the town  stud?

That if a woman has children by 3 different men she's a **bleep**, if a man has children by 3 different women those women are all sluts?

That if a girl  plays soccer she's a tomboy, if a boy does ballet he's a poofter?

[morgana2408]

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@3ksandpj wrote:

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@morgana2408 wrote:
something %. Can you provide a link for the information.

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It's from wikipedia.  In the "Rape of males" section; 

Female-on-male rape is under-researched compared to other forms of sexual violence.[12]

Statistics on the prevalence of female-on-male sexual violence vary. A 2010 study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 93.3% male rape victims reported only male perpetrators. 1 in 21 or 4.8% of men reported being "made to penetrate".[13] The survey also found that male victims reported only female perpetrators in instances of being made to penetrate (79.2%), sexual coercion (83.6%), and unwanted sexual contact (53.1%).[13] A 2008 study of 98 men interviewed on the National Crime Victimization Survey found that nearly half of the men (46%) who reported some form of sexual victimization were victimized by women.[14]

Take from that what you will, the fact of it is it's an under researched thing...

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You know wikipedia is not a reliable source. Police figures? Other figures

[morgana2408]

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@***super_nova*** wrote:

And I suppose you cannot see the contradiction of your statements; on one hand women do not have the same strength as men, and the other they apparently go around raping men.  To rape the rapist has to have a superior strength to hold their victim down.  Do men nowadays get unwanted sexual advances as much as women do?  Very likely.  But I do not believe there has ever been a case where woman abducted a man from the street, raped him, and either killed him or left him severely injured. 

By the way, there is nothing wrong with the so called "suitable for woman" professions, except that in our society these professions are not valued, and people working in them re paid considerably less than people in professions needing similar education, but being more male or unisex oriented.  It is not the case in other countries.

Anyway, if any man wants to be the main provider and marries a woman who is happy to be a homemaker, that is their business, and nobody is stopping them.  If other man wants to spend lot of time with the kids, and would prefer to work less and his wife is happy to share all duties including earning money; that is also fine. 

I also wonder why should make up make anybody more or less masculine?  A man without make-up is still the same person if he puts make-up on.  Putting make-up on does not change him in any way as a person.

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Well said

[morgana2408]

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@3ksandpj wrote:

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@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

Me, I,m just going to stay defending and providing for the family and to he!! with your modern world role changes.

But doesn't your spouse/partner also defend and provide for the family?

You also said: 

I think all humans are still hard wired to our more prehistoric, pre modern society instincts.

This means that men who are the physically stronger sex are hard wired to be protectors and hunters. Testosterone influences mens physical strength and his levels of aggression and willingness to fight to protect his family ( or yes She el, just to fight)

I would argue that the prehistoric male impulse to fight had far less to do with protection than control. One could point to the  animal kingdom qand say that the dominant male in any herd fights to protect his females, but it would not be true. What he is fighing for is the exclusive right to mate with them and pass on his genes. This may be a 'good thing' in evolutionary terms, but it is a bit redundant in modern society. As for dealing with spiders or snakes - or even other men. - families ,and society as a whole, are much better served by empowering women to deal with them themselves rather than expecting them to rely on their menfolk to do it for them. 

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I was so hoping that this discussion wasn't going to turn into a battle of the sexes.  Feminism resonates with you she-ele yes? I understand, you've lived through a massive transition.  You've seen and experienced things that us generation xers and the most modern "millenials" can olny read about in books...  But I feel as though all of these post modern ideals are like the pathway built with good intentions is rapidly leading us towards hell...  Methophorically speaking as a society.  

Women have been empowered now for decades.  Only 30% of school teachers (accross the board) are men:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/men-too-scared-to-teach-for-fear-of-being-falsely...

And look at the state of the education system.  Programs like SSP gets priority, while IT depts cant even provide up to date technology for classrooms.  The education is being replaced with social justice programmes.  Kids are being indoctrinated with sexual ideology rather than being taught how to think critically for themselves...  It's all offshoots of TWF imo.

Yet theres still this false dicotomy engrained in this TWF movement,  that the "patriarchy" is opressing womens rights etc etc.  It's complete bullocks imo.  It's more like TWF is oppressing, demonising and trying to turn men soft...   

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Women are better off then their mothers and grandmothers for sure. But treated as equals across the board no. Children are being taught to be critcal thinkers, well mine is. I have observed that some just don't like it when the thinking is different to them,then blame how children are taught today.

[morgana2408]

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@3ksandpj wrote:
I wonder how many teenage girls do you actually know. So many these days play rough, use foul language, pick fights with boys, sleep around, get suspended from school for bullying, send nude pics of themselves to boys, identify with third-wave feminism.

It is so not about equality anymore. I think we'd all be pressed to find any real examples of inequality these days. It's about abolishing traditional gender roles. It's not healthy for kids, they have no boundaries and are confused about appropriate ways to behave.

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How many do you know? how dare assume my daughter and her peers are like that. They are not. It is about equality and part of that is allowing a women to be herself. Traditional roles were the cause of alot pain. Woman could only look forward to marriage or a very limited career options, lesbians had to pretend they were straight causing them untold pain. Society is much healthier today because people are not bullied into roles that don't suit them. The girls that you address have nothing to do with feminism their just ........... there always has been and always will be people who aren't the greatest,