on 25-08-2014 09:12 AM
Truth overboard at Gillian Triggs’ inquiry on children in detention
Well done to Scott Morrison he ripper her and made her look stupid and a liar and this inquiry a political witch hunt
Well done to Immigration Department secretary Martin Bowles as well as he put her in her place after the blatant LIES she told...
Worth watching the video and Gillian Triggs squirm when she is exposed as a liar
THE Human Rights Commission president must resign after turning her inquiry on children in detention into a political witch-hunt last week.
Gillian Triggs’ behaviour was unforgivable for someone with semi-judicial powers, able to force witnesses to appear under threat of jail.
We cannot have the head of an inquiry showing such bias, heckling witnesses and making false and emotive claims from the bench to make the Christmas Island detention centre seem a hellhole.
Nor can we have an inquiry head giving media interviews attacking witnesses and summing up the issues before hearing all the evidence.
We also cannot have an inquiry head refusing to correct explosive claims about suicide attempts in detention when they’ve been debunked.
It is now impossible to have confidence in Triggs’ impartiality.
In fact, it’s hard not to suspect her inquiry is designed to reach a prejudged conclusion — to damn the Abbott Government’s successful border laws.
The very fact that Triggs, a law academic, called this taxpayer-funded inquiry is highly suspect.
The last time her commission looked into this issue was 2004 — which, what a surprise, was when the Howard government was stopping the boats, too.
No further inquiry was held in the seven years of Labor’s Rudd and Gillard governments, during which the border laws were weakened, luring more than 1200 men, women and children to their deaths and filling detention centres to bursting.
No, Triggs, appointed by Labor in 2012, waited until another Liberal government was back in power, stopping the boats and emptying the detention centres.
Sev Ozdowski, the former human rights commissioner responsible for the 2004 inquiry, calls this timing “very odd”.
“When the boats were arriving in large numbers and Labor was at its peak of cruelty towards the boat arrivals, (the commission) almost did not see the problem.”
But Triggs is now on the case, seemingly filled with a righteous anger at the Abbott Government, even though the boats have now stopped and the number of children in detention more than halved.
Last month, for instance, she claimed “we’ve had reports that have been confirmed during the day that 10 women have attempted suicide” on Christmas Island.
False. There has been only one case of self-harm by a woman that could with any credibility be described as “attempted suicide”. And, no, Madam President, sipping some shampoo does not qualify.
Triggs also claimed last month she’d visited the detained children on Christmas Island and “almost all of them, including the adults, were coughing, were sick, were depressed, unable to communicate (and) weak”, which made her want to ask: “What’s going on? Why is this child not being treated?”
False again. Sick children are indeed being treated and the Government hotly disputes Triggs’ claim that almost every detained child on Christmas Island is sick.
Told this, Triggs — with her inquiry still to hear from Immigration Minister Scott Morrison — gave another media interview rebuking Morrison as needing “to be better advised”, and insisting “all children should be removed from the detention centres and placed in the community”.
Er, isn’t that the very thing the inquiry is meant to determine at the end of the hearings, and not near the start? Should an inquiry head really be attacking witnesses even before they’ve given their evidence?
But if all that was bad, last week was a disgrace.
Morrison appeared before her inquiry and Triggs flew for his throat: “How can you justify detaining children in these conditions for more than a year when there is no evidence that this is the policy that is stopping the boats but rather Operation Sovereign Borders, however you define it, with three-star generals or civilian authorities, whatever name you put to it, the reality is that physical force and power have stopped these boats?”
Not biased? Triggs?
On it went.
Triggs insisted “the people on Christmas Island are being detained in a prison effectively” because on her three visits she had noticed “you cannot get into any of the sections without going through armed guards”.
That infuriated the Immigration Department secretary Martin Bowles, who protested at Triggs’ “emotive statements”.
“It is not fair to characterise the detention system as a jail,” he said, and Triggs should correct a falsehood.
“We do not have armed guards, President. I would like you to acknowledge that.”
Triggs would not, despite being repeatedly challenged on her “facts”.
But if the head of an inquiry can see armed guards where there are none, and a prison where there are only pool fences, what else is she imagining about what she’s supposed to impartially judge?
No, Triggs must resign. She is meant to confront injustice, not commit it.
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28-08-2014 11:28 AM - edited 28-08-2014 11:29 AM
And do we actually have any evidence to back up Mr Bowles statement that there are no armed guards at detention centres?
on 28-08-2014 11:29 AM
Lying - intentional
different from
Honest mistakes or misinformation
on 28-08-2014 11:35 AM
It doesn't matter one bit, in the big scheme of things. Just The Daily Telegraph and its sheep like followers clutching desperately onto straws.
on 28-08-2014 11:35 AM
"Deflection from the real issues."
The issue of armed guards in immi detention centres
was important enough to be raised and debated here
not that long ago so obviously there are people who care
about this issue. it was important enough for the president
of ahrc to bring it up during the inquiry.
it is not the main issue but obviously it is a real issue.
i dont believe she lied intentionally. i believe she made a mistake
and was corrected.
on 28-08-2014 11:38 AM
So the cries of Triggs needs to be sacked, leftie appointed whatever, bias are just unfounded hysteria? Thought so.
on 28-08-2014 11:43 AM
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@am*3 wrote:"His brother was then dragged out of the dormitory room by the guard before being continually hit by other G4S guards with the butts of their guns, the witness alleges in a statement obtained by Fairfax Media that was made to Papua New Guinea's government and dated March 26 [2014]"
icy wrote: Your point?
Is this an acceptable way to treat people held on Manus Island? Who/what Aust Govt Dept allowed this to happen?
The Australian Govt can't allow people held in detention centres to be mistreated, and then say never mind, we fired those people that did that. End. of. story.
No and I agree with you on that point. But it's not the point of this discussion.
The point of this discussion is that Ms Triggs made a false accusation.
The accusation Ms Triggs made, was that detention centres are effectively prisons.
The evidence she used in support of this accusation was that on the three occasions she visited a detention centre she had to pass through armed guards.
Was she lying?
Well was she? She didn't seem sure, saying she had to check with her clients. There was no evidence.
Mr Bowles said they don't have armed guards.
In the report on the riots on Manus Island, which julia provided a link to in an earlier post, it was stated the G4S guards were not armed.
So...you tell me, She-el.
OK.
1) She said detention centres are effectively prisons .Nobody here has so far put forward any evidence to refute this and I believe it is correct.
2) She said she had visited a detention centre three times and had to pass through armed guards. Given the evidence from witness statements (which Am provided a link to in an earlier post,) then unless rthey all lying we have to accept that when Ms Trigg visited the detention centre(s) - and note she did not specify Manus Island - there were indeed armed guards.
3) When she said she had to check with her clients it is logical to assume it was to check whether the armed guards employed by G4S are still being used under Serco's management
i think you need to read the report to make a logical assumption.
on 28-08-2014 11:47 AM
does anyone know when the commission sits next?
maybe there'll be some more clarification of the armed guards and whether a detention centre is a prison or not then hopefully they can address some of the more serious matters such as the treatment of the children and asylum seekers held in detention there
on 28-08-2014 11:54 AM
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@icyfroth wrote:
@am*3 wrote:"His brother was then dragged out of the dormitory room by the guard before being continually hit by other G4S guards with the butts of their guns, the witness alleges in a statement obtained by Fairfax Media that was made to Papua New Guinea's government and dated March 26 [2014]"
icy wrote: Your point?
Is this an acceptable way to treat people held on Manus Island? Who/what Aust Govt Dept allowed this to happen?
The Australian Govt can't allow people held in detention centres to be mistreated, and then say never mind, we fired those people that did that. End. of. story.
No and I agree with you on that point. But it's not the point of this discussion.
The point of this discussion is that Ms Triggs made a false accusation.
The accusation Ms Triggs made, was that detention centres are effectively prisons.
The evidence she used in support of this accusation was that on the three occasions she visited a detention centre she had to pass through armed guards.
Was she lying?
Well was she? She didn't seem sure, saying she had to check with her clients. There was no evidence.
Mr Bowles said they don't have armed guards.
In the report on the riots on Manus Island, which julia provided a link to in an earlier post, it was stated the G4S guards were not armed.
So...you tell me, She-el.
OK.
1) She said detention centres are effectively prisons .Nobody here has so far put forward any evidence to refute this and I believe it is correct.
2) She said she had visited a detention centre three times and had to pass through armed guards. Given the evidence from witness statements (which Am provided a link to in an earlier post,) then unless rthey all lying we have to accept that when Ms Trigg visited the detention centre(s) - and note she did not specify Manus Island - there were indeed armed guards.
3) When she said she had to check with her clients it is logical to assume it was to check whether the armed guards employed by G4S are still being used under Serco's management
1. You may believe it is correct, but believing does not make it so. Detention facilities are not correctional facilities, as Martini kindly pointed out.
2. If Ms Triggs visited a detention centre up to February the security guards would have been G4S personnell. In the report of the Manus Island riot posted by julia*2010 it clearly stated the the G4S guards were not armed.
https://www.immi.gov.au/about/dept-info/_files/review-robert-cornall.pdf
Page 6, paragraph 5, under the heading Monday 17-Tuesday 18Feb.
If the G4S security firm, which is no longer under contract, was not armed, there is no reason to beleive the new contractors are. On any of the Island detention centres.
3. If she had to check, she hasn't kept her information up to date and should have refrained from making that statement.
on 28-08-2014 11:55 AM
The issue of armed guards in immi detention centres
was important enough to be raised and debated here
ROFL. If you relly believe that Julia, then I think you take these boards and those who post on it just a tad too seriously. Trivia is the order of the day around here.
i think you need to read the report to make a logical assumption.
So which of my assumptions were illogical and why?
And PLEASE can you - or anyone - explain to me why you believe a detention centre is not effectively a prison.
on 28-08-2014 11:56 AM
@am*3 wrote:So the cries of Triggs needs to be sacked, leftie appointed whatever, bias are just unfounded hysteria? Thought so.
it is true that she was appointed by the previous government
so draw your own conclusions but asking for her to be sacked -
no. not over this. she will make it right im sure.