URGENT: Another Mechanical Question?

[rabbitearbandicoot]

Mazda Eunos 1.8lt V6 - trying to undo the crank bolt - of course using ordinary socket it just spins the engine - can't get at the flywheel to wedge it - mechanic told me to use a rattle gun with the relivant shatter proof socket of course - 21mm. So bought a rattle gun and sockets.

Tried several times - it makes a noise but doesn't move the bolt.

Question: would this bolt be normal thread or reverse thread?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

that's very true. I just thought bandicoot could do with some practical tips rather than theoretical ones... because in theory sometimes that's just not the case.

Bandicoot would also have one of these on his bench no doubt

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Twin-Quad-Cam-Locking-Tool-T-E-Tools-new-6266-/261511508873

or possibly they will be using the 3 mates with an extra hand hanging out of their clanger approach.

Honestly the amount of backyarders who do not replace water pumps, idler  bearings tensioner bearings, hyd tensioners etc or neglect to check for camshaft bearing seizure  and have a second breakage with modern multi cammed engines is best stated as many.

The reason for the failure needs as best as possible to be ascertained before repair then reassembly is attempted.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@this-one-time-at-bandcamp wrote:

By that token, dropping a nut down a carb can make a non-interference engine into an interference one.  I had a friend break a camshaft at 7000 rmp in a 465 Rat motor......the two lobes that ended up bouncing around the interior of the motor certainly interfered with it........

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and that is exactly my point...any engine (whether push rod, chain or belt style vv train is used) can have internal

"interference" type damage. You need to work out why it broke... It does not take  Einstein to work out the belt is broken

Always pull the tappet covers off and look for a dropped vv/broken cam pre disassembly for belt/chain replacement if a break occurred( I will not quote a job without doing that).

If the internal looks black varnished and smells like the bottom of my waste oil drums then( as much as you can practically) check the camshaft bearings for wear regardless of what the manufacturer states re interference status.

[this-one-time-at-bandcamp]

It's been almost 30 years since I delved into a motor professionally, my heart transplant put paid to that.  There were very few OHC motors around.......the only one I worked on was a Volvo which had a seized cam.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

on a more serious pratcical note

to save bandicoot the MF of working out which way to lock the bolt head  (and possibly burning out his starter motor/wire/battery post or squashing himself

if the spanner/breaker is put on the wrong way the starter motor bump may break the bolt but more likely make the car ride up on its support stand jacks and possibly fall off

for east west engines

if the bolt is on the passenger LHS of the car then if you lock the breaker bar/spanner with it facing the front of the car the breaker bar will want to move upwards when the starter motor is bumped so choose something solid on the arc up or if you want to face the breaker bar towards the back on the passenger side then the spanner bre4aker bar will want to rotate down and lock on the floor ground block or whatever.

If the bolt is on the RHS drivers side of the car then if the spanner/breaker bar is facing towards the front then when the engine is bump cranked the b/bar will want to move down towards the ground/floor block alternately if the b/bar is facing the rear of the car then the b/bar will want to move upwards and needs to be locked under the floor or kframe suspension etc

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

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@rabbitearbandicoot wrote:

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@serendipityricho wrote:

Rabbit-you didnt mention that before.

Like most of your -mechanical help threads--info comes out during the thread.

Good luck fixing it.................................Richo.

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sorry, I guess it was in my mind about the other thread and I wrongly assumed that everyone would remember it too 

http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Community-Spirit/Mechanical-Tech-Question/m-p/1744072#M482215

NB I can't try the starter method because the car is up on jacks - well, I suppose I could but it's a long way off the ground.

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NB I generally use the Monman starter method on a 4 post hoist....so you must own a bloody tall jack.... or an extremely short breaker bar.

Hint: just turn the bolt around clockwise with the breaker bar until it jams on something ie. lower control arm, firewall or

K frame (not the radiator or the tie rods) then bump crank the engine which will turn the crank clockwise. As MM said the socket and b/bar will hold the bolt head still and voila

I have a 3/4 drive double electric motor rattle gun that punches out about 1500nm... to the non mechanics that means that I generally need two fat blokes holding onto either leg when I squeeze the trigger or I will turn into a helicopter, I think my arms would be the first to twist like a pretzel.

I use that on bigger engines coupled to a torque multiplier generally on larger earthmoving equipment with inch drive 

sockets.

I trust that you are fitting the full kit and also changing the water pump?? ( not 100% sure on KE but I would reckon the timing belt also drives the water pp and water pp seizure is a common cause of belt breakage) Yes, the whole kit.

Check for balance shaft positioning procedure

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Thanks for that. By the looks of things I am going to need all the help I can get. I wouldn't attempt all this on my running car, it's just that I thought I'd have a go on the spare car - if I stuff something up it doesn't matter too much.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

You can't always trust what is written in these reports...so just keep in mind that generally something else other than old age makes a timing belt break altogether, jump belt teeth or remove belt teeth.

If I get a chance I will have a look in the timing belt bible when I get back to the shed.

http://www.motoring.com.au/advice/2007/small-passenger/eunos/30x/used-car-advice-eunos-mazda-30x-cou...

The two biggest causes of cam belt failure. Seized cam bearings and seized water pp bearings

Although tiny, the all-aluminium 1.8-litre V6 is as complex as a Ferrari with 24 valves, four camshafts and fine oil galleries so it won't tolerate skipped oil changes or cheap oil.

Sludged oil galleries starve the camshafts of oil which can then seize and destroy the heads at huge cost.

Cylinder head closest to front is first to fail from oil starvation as it's furthest from oil pump so listen for early warning signs such as clattery valve gear or noisy lifters from not getting enough oil pressure

Cam belt is important 100,000km maintenance item as valves and pistons can collide if it breaks while being revved. Water pump driven by cam belt usually fails at 120,000km for repeat labour bill so best replaced at each belt change.

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The car has 290,000km and I don't know whether the belt has ever been changed. It's recently had other work done on it that I can see eg shocks and mounts but who knows about oil changes etc.

[rabbitearbandicoot]

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

that's very true. I just thought bandicoot could do with some practical tips rather than theoretical ones... because in theory sometimes that's just not the case.

Bandicoot would also have one of these on his bench no doubt

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Twin-Quad-Cam-Locking-Tool-T-E-Tools-new-6266-/261511508873

or possibly they will be using the 3 mates with an extra hand hanging out of their clanger approach.

Honestly the amount of backyarders who do not replace water pumps, idler  bearings tensioner bearings, hyd tensioners etc or neglect to check for camshaft bearing seizure  and have a second breakage with modern multi cammed engines is best stated as many.

The reason for the failure needs as best as possible to be ascertained before repair then reassembly is attempted.

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"check for camshaft bearing seizure" - Right. I wouldn't have thought of that. Well, I might have, after the new belt broke.

Question: if the camshaft(s) bearing were seized, would the engine turn over reasonably - once the new belt is on?

[softail-joanie]

this is probibly a terible idea, however if all else fails, I was thinkin maybe pull out a spark plug and put the biggest screwdriver you can find that fits in the hole. then turn the bolt to losen, the engine should stop cold when piston meets screwdriver.

.

[softail-joanie]

if you try that, do it by hand, please don't use the impact, and go very easy and slow with it. this could crack the piston.

[softail-joanie]

and wrap some tape around the screwdriver shaft, as much as you can to cushon the stress on the pistion.