Uluru 30th anniversary

Congratulations to the Anangu people, who had Uluru handed back to them thirty years ago, today. A day worth celebrating.

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"There is nothing more; but I want nothing more." Christopher Hitchins
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Uluru 30th anniversary


@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

@*julia*2010 wrote:

Of course the 'mixed blood' individuals at Uluru wouldn't be here today if the whites hadn't come - chances are none of todays 'full bloods' inividuals would exist either.

 

 

so why would they be "better off"? 


The words used were 'we'd be better off' not "I'd be better off" - which implies the  alleged speaker was talking about  the present day Aboriginal population of Uluru, not any particular Iindividual. Therefore  the argument about whether alleged speaker  would or would not be here today is   irrelevant. 

(And I use the word alleged because  I suspect  the poster in question is relying on hearsay and has never actually had that comment made to them by any individual)


the poster said:

 

Many say "if the whites never came here we would be better off ........."

If white s didnt come here they would not exist.Simple logic tells that.

It may be that if no one from outside came that someone would exist but not one of those of mixed blood would exist.Not one.So that argument has no legs at all.

 

 

to which you responded with:

 

That would have to be one of the fuzziest piece of logic I have ever seen on these boards. Of course the 'mixed blood' individuals at Uluru wouldn't be here today if the whites hadn't come - chances are none of todays 'full bloods' inividuals would exist either. The group dynamics - and therefore the population - would have developed completely differently.

If one of Mr Elephant's  ancestors hadn't stolen 48 bottles from the back of a pub in 1791, or if I hadn't got bored with my life in London and decided to  become a 10 quid tourist in 1962, none of my children, grandchildren or great grandchildren would be here today. Every single individual living on this planet is only here because of an eons long sequence of random events so coincidental as to be almost beyond the bounds of probability. 

 

 

so i will ask again:

 

why do  they say they would be

better off?

 

 

Message 11 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

I'm not qualified to guess.  I've never been to Uluru and nobody from there has ever said it to me. You would need to   go there and ask them,  or perhaps the poster who clams to know they have said it could enlighten you.

Message 12 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

ok thanks.

 

you do agree that such claim is 

illogical though.

 

 

 

Message 13 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

How can I? I can only see the end results of what did happen, not of what might have happened, so I am not in a position to judge. Who knows what might have been accomplished by individuals living today if their potential ancestors had not died of introduced diseases,  been hanged for attacking white settlers or shot for stealing food from the prospectors who had wrecked their waterholes and driven away the game on which there lives  depended

Message 14 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

And without knowing who actually made the claim and why they made it there is no posible way of knowing whether it was illogical or not. Perhaps the life of that particular individual was so miserable that he or she felt they ould have been better off never existing.

Message 15 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

 

If you remove white man from the equation

No ancestors or any current day aboriginal

Would have achieved anything as you put it.

 

They were the only civilization never to have

Kept livestock or plant crops.

 

There time spent before whites was waring with

Other tribes and eating or killing any that did not

Run away.

 

This they had been doing for the best part of 

40, 000 so nothing much would have changed

In the last 200 odd

 

Who's to say that there was not a more peaceful

Peoples here before they came before recorded

History.

 

And they had their turn at raping and plundering

Just like the rest 

Message 16 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary


@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

How can I? I can only see the end results of what did happen, not of what might have happened, so I am not in a position to judge. Who knows what might have been accomplished by individuals living today if their potential ancestors had not died of introduced diseases,  been hanged for attacking white settlers or shot for stealing food from the prospectors who had wrecked their waterholes and driven away the game on which there lives  depended


what are you talking about?

 

this is about the comment about

the  consequences of the whites

not coming here.  you pretty much

agreed with what the poster was saying

 

lol

 

Message 17 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary


@opmania wrote:

 

If you remove white man from the equation

No ancestors or any current day aboriginal

Would have achieved anything as you put it.

 

They were the only civilization never to have

Kept livestock or plant crops.

 

There time spent before whites was waring with

Other tribes and eating or killing any that did not

Run away.

 

This they had been doing for the best part of 

40, 000 so nothing much would have changed

In the last 200 odd

 

Who's to say that there was not a more peaceful

Peoples here before they came before recorded

History.

 

And they had their turn at raping and plundering

Just like the rest 


What an extraordinarily white, arrogant  and il-informed point of view.  

 

The aboriginal people are the native inhabitants ofAustralia. They are a dark-skinned people belonging to the Australoid group more closely related to Africans than to Asians and Europeans. They are believed to be descendants of the first group of humans to migrate out of Africa about 60,000 years ago.

Being the first humans to arrive in Australia about 50,000 years ago; the Aborigines discovered Australia. They were the first human inhabitants of Australia.

http://panique.com.au/trishansoz/aborigine/aborigin.html

 

As far as I know, there is no evidence to show  that their wars were any more frequent or bloody than ours, and much evidence to show they were in fact a lot less bloody - would you rather be despatched with a blow to the head or dieof radiation sickness or  in a gas chamber with all your family and most of the rest  of your tribe?

 

 If their culture had kept them going for 50,00 years, isn't it a bit presumtuous to assume it needed to change?  We are very proud of our sophisticated civilisation, but our technological advancements have brought us to the point where we are in genuine danger of exterminating ourselves.- and are our lives really any happier or more fulfilled than those of the pre colonial Aborigines? When it all boils down to it, the only advancements in Western civilisation that have really enhanced our  life experience, have been advances in medicine (particularly pain control) and even these advancements are a mixed blessing since they are often used to prolong the lives of the terminally ill whose existence has become a burden that a they long to be rid of.

Message 18 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

 

 

Maybe you might like to have 

A rethink here about what you

Say how you say it and who 

You say it to because I am not

Going to let a remark like you 

Made about whites go unchallenged

 

Quite frankly I've had enough of 

It 

Message 19 of 29
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Uluru 30th anniversary

Hi everyone, the discussion is getting a little heated.  Please be sure to keep your communications civil.  Thanks!

Message 20 of 29
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