on โ26-10-2015 07:35 PM
Congratulations to the Anangu people, who had Uluru handed back to them thirty years ago, today. A day worth celebrating.
Solved! Go to Solution.
on โ27-10-2015 01:18 PM
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:
@*julia*2010 wrote:Of course the 'mixed blood' individuals at Uluru wouldn't be here today if the whites hadn't come - chances are none of todays 'full bloods' inividuals would exist either.
so why would they be "better off"?
The words used were 'we'd be better off' not "I'd be better off" - which implies the alleged speaker was talking about the present day Aboriginal population of Uluru, not any particular Iindividual. Therefore the argument about whether alleged speaker would or would not be here today is irrelevant.
(And I use the word alleged because I suspect the poster in question is relying on hearsay and has never actually had that comment made to them by any individual)
the poster said:
Many say "if the whites never came here we would be better off ........."
If white s didnt come here they would not exist.Simple logic tells that.
It may be that if no one from outside came that someone would exist but not one of those of mixed blood would exist.Not one.So that argument has no legs at all.
to which you responded with:
That would have to be one of the fuzziest piece of logic I have ever seen on these boards. Of course the 'mixed blood' individuals at Uluru wouldn't be here today if the whites hadn't come - chances are none of todays 'full bloods' inividuals would exist either. The group dynamics - and therefore the population - would have developed completely differently.
If one of Mr Elephant's ancestors hadn't stolen 48 bottles from the back of a pub in 1791, or if I hadn't got bored with my life in London and decided to become a 10 quid tourist in 1962, none of my children, grandchildren or great grandchildren would be here today. Every single individual living on this planet is only here because of an eons long sequence of random events so coincidental as to be almost beyond the bounds of probability.
so i will ask again:
why do they say they would be
better off?
on โ27-10-2015 01:46 PM
I'm not qualified to guess. I've never been to Uluru and nobody from there has ever said it to me. You would need to go there and ask them, or perhaps the poster who clams to know they have said it could enlighten you.
on โ27-10-2015 02:00 PM
ok thanks.
you do agree that such claim is
illogical though.
on โ27-10-2015 02:28 PM
How can I? I can only see the end results of what did happen, not of what might have happened, so I am not in a position to judge. Who knows what might have been accomplished by individuals living today if their potential ancestors had not died of introduced diseases, been hanged for attacking white settlers or shot for stealing food from the prospectors who had wrecked their waterholes and driven away the game on which there lives depended
โ27-10-2015 02:34 PM - edited โ27-10-2015 02:35 PM
And without knowing who actually made the claim and why they made it there is no posible way of knowing whether it was illogical or not. Perhaps the life of that particular individual was so miserable that he or she felt they ould have been better off never existing.
on โ27-10-2015 03:02 PM
If you remove white man from the equation
No ancestors or any current day aboriginal
Would have achieved anything as you put it.
They were the only civilization never to have
Kept livestock or plant crops.
There time spent before whites was waring with
Other tribes and eating or killing any that did not
Run away.
This they had been doing for the best part of
40, 000 so nothing much would have changed
In the last 200 odd
Who's to say that there was not a more peaceful
Peoples here before they came before recorded
History.
And they had their turn at raping and plundering
Just like the rest
on โ27-10-2015 03:22 PM
@the_great_she_elephant wrote:How can I? I can only see the end results of what did happen, not of what might have happened, so I am not in a position to judge. Who knows what might have been accomplished by individuals living today if their potential ancestors had not died of introduced diseases, been hanged for attacking white settlers or shot for stealing food from the prospectors who had wrecked their waterholes and driven away the game on which there lives depended
what are you talking about?
this is about the comment about
the consequences of the whites
not coming here. you pretty much
agreed with what the poster was saying
lol
on โ27-10-2015 03:39 PM
@opmania wrote:
If you remove white man from the equation
No ancestors or any current day aboriginal
Would have achieved anything as you put it.
They were the only civilization never to have
Kept livestock or plant crops.
There time spent before whites was waring with
Other tribes and eating or killing any that did not
Run away.
This they had been doing for the best part of
40, 000 so nothing much would have changed
In the last 200 odd
Who's to say that there was not a more peaceful
Peoples here before they came before recorded
History.
And they had their turn at raping and plundering
Just like the rest
What an extraordinarily white, arrogant and il-informed point of view.
The aboriginal people are the native inhabitants ofAustralia. They are a dark-skinned people belonging to the Australoid group more closely related to Africans than to Asians and Europeans. They are believed to be descendants of the first group of humans to migrate out of Africa about 60,000 years ago.
Being the first humans to arrive in Australia about 50,000 years ago; the Aborigines discovered Australia. They were the first human inhabitants of Australia.
http://panique.com.au/trishansoz/aborigine/aborigin.html
As far as I know, there is no evidence to show that their wars were any more frequent or bloody than ours, and much evidence to show they were in fact a lot less bloody - would you rather be despatched with a blow to the head or dieof radiation sickness or in a gas chamber with all your family and most of the rest of your tribe?
If their culture had kept them going for 50,00 years, isn't it a bit presumtuous to assume it needed to change? We are very proud of our sophisticated civilisation, but our technological advancements have brought us to the point where we are in genuine danger of exterminating ourselves.- and are our lives really any happier or more fulfilled than those of the pre colonial Aborigines? When it all boils down to it, the only advancements in Western civilisation that have really enhanced our life experience, have been advances in medicine (particularly pain control) and even these advancements are a mixed blessing since they are often used to prolong the lives of the terminally ill whose existence has become a burden that a they long to be rid of.
on โ27-10-2015 04:24 PM
Maybe you might like to have
A rethink here about what you
Say how you say it and who
You say it to because I am not
Going to let a remark like you
Made about whites go unchallenged
Quite frankly I've had enough of
It
on โ27-10-2015 04:42 PM
Hi everyone, the discussion is getting a little heated. Please be sure to keep your communications civil. Thanks!