seems mandatory vaccine is the go for the work place ....

[rogespeed]

The vaccine for covid , seems now being mandated for those currently employed

Seems like a violation of the existing conditions of employment for many , particularly whereby there is no mandate for  influenza vaccine requirement

Of course a harmless vaccine proven to mitigate against deadly covid-19 is desirable however some may object for whatever reason - and as are currently employed , one wonders the moral efficacy of coerced inoculation, as is clearly a workplace agreement item 

There is talk of dismissing currently employed workers for non-compliance

This to me would violate existing workplace agreements and a violation - fully paid leave would be the only  ethical way of excluding current employees ( unless all are retrenched then re-employed under covid safe clauses ) 

If there was no alternate to vaccination a strong case could be argued

But there are alternatives - periodic pcr tests,  daily check-in fast antigen tests , 1 minute on the treadmill 

The vaccines are released under emergency use meaning are experimental , so clearly fall under international law regarding strictly no forcing of experimental treatments

All that i am saying is that while inoculation is the most convenient , controllable and cost effective procedure , there should be an alternate process that meets workplace requirements

[janeababe]

Oh for goodness sake.

I keep up to date with all my vaccines. YET, despite having the whooping cough vaccine, I have had whooping cough 4 times in the last 10yrs. Go figure. In actual fact, 5yrs ago when my last grandchild was born, I ended up having a double dose of the whooping cough vaccine only to show a mild coverage in my bloodwork pathology.  I’m next due end of this year because another grand baby on the way and I always get that shot when there’s a new Bub to cuddle.

So a covid vaccinated person can (may) still catch covid and may still pass it on to others. So what! The chances are slim, it’s not zero, but it’s slim. Guess whose chances are higher? The UNVACCINATED!!!!!  They are the ones ending up in ICU beds, infecting loved ones, risking care staff, possibly dying.  But you already know this.

This whole thread is just one big damn broken record………

Look, if you don’t want to get the vaccine, then don’t get it!    But live with your decisions and the consequences from those personal choices. 

Then let it go, and move on. *sigh*

[viewmont1071]

---

@countessalmirena wrote: (in part)

This is not - in my view - exclusively a far-right sort of movement. It's more an extremist movement (perhaps more than one, and perhaps they have very different agendas) capitalising upon any view or concern or perspective that they can manipulate. Nothing has really come to light - at least publicly - about extreme-left involvement, but I'm sceptical about the insidious nature of these manipulations and frankly don't think that left or right matters. The fact is that disinformation is being produced, and it's being spread through any means or group that will propagate it, with the same wording being used, the same non-existent or incorrect data being referred to, the same figures being hailed, and people from various and very different walks being used to spread it.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I believe that organized crime (worldwide) is not only the core instigator, but also the organization that reaps most benefit from the rifts in the fabric of society that we see developing.

Not the left, middle or right of politics although Organized Crime (OC) utilizes/manipulates all three and also utilizes/manipulates religion of any denomination to glean big $$$$$$$$$.

A couple of excerpts follows from the supplied links below. The top one addresses a specific situation but the OC blueprint remains the same in any situation

https://theconversation.com/how-organised-crime-affects-the-most-vulnerable-communities-98262

"Any situation where the hand of good governance is weak, or where the state appears to falter, criminal entrepreneurs will be quick to extract profit. The added reach and flexibility afforded through increasingly connected (and handily insulated) global networks makes their job even easier."

https://www.unodc.org/e4j/en/organized-crime/module-6/key-issues/structural-factors.html

Weak States and organized crime

"Weak and failing States as well as conflict regions have traditionally been considered as crime-facilitative environments. Organized crime emerges out of the power vacuum that is created by the absence of enforcement and good governance.

Failed States have weak institutions and high levels of corruption, which can be both a symptom and cause of organized criminal activity. The incapability of state institutions allows criminal organizations to operate more or less freely and corruption attracts organized crime, as corrupt institutions are highly susceptible to influence.

Therefore, organized criminal groups can take advantage of the governance void in weak States, as well as the lack of law and order, and use the State to further their interests."

[chameleon54]

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@janeababe wrote:

Oh for goodness sake.

I keep up to date with all my vaccines. YET, despite having the whooping cough vaccine, I have had whooping cough 4 times in the last 10yrs. Go figure.

In actual fact, 5yrs ago when my last grandchild was born, I ended up having a double dose of the whooping cough vaccine only to show a mild coverage in my bloodwork pathology.  I’m next due end of this year because another grand baby on the way and I always get that shot when there’s a new Bub to cuddle.

Thanks janebabe - at least one poster has the integrity to admit that double vaccinated people will almost certainly get COVID. 

So a covid vaccinated person can (may) still catch covid and may still pass it on to others. So what!

The " So what ! " is about the reason governments are using apartheid / social exclusion to force people to become vaccinated. Its not so much about " Keeping others safe " . That's just the fairy story they are spinning to the gullible who spout it back ad nausium on social media, despite the very clear evidence they will almost certainly be infected by COVID at some point, even if we achieved 100% double vaccs.

The biggest issue governments are now facing is the economic consequences of the policies that have been implemented. Never before seen debt, never before seen economic stimulation, never before seen outside of war time, disruption to industry and international  transport systems. The result will be inflation ( and possibly high interest rates ) like we have never seen before. Its all about the $$$

So lets just have some honesty ....... not the " its keeping others safe " mantra the gullible numpties spout like a broken record despite very clear evidence to the contrary..

The chances are slim, it’s not zero, but it’s slim. Guess whose chances are higher? The UNVACCINATED!!!!!  They are the ones ending up in ICU beds, infecting loved ones, risking care staff, possibly dying.  But you already know this.

Yes that's true initially, but within a matter of months, many of the unvaccinated will have been infected with COVID, most showing recovery after mild symptoms and they will have the same antibody resistance as vaccinated people. ( the other 1 % will be dead and wont be infecting anyone ) If we have 90 % of the population double vaccinated and most of the unvaccinated carrying natural anti bodies caused by previous infection then people will have far greater  chances of catching the virus from a double vaccinated person ! .............Simple maths.

This whole thread is just one big damn broken record………

Look, if you don’t want to get the vaccine, then don’t get it!  

Again - another broken record that everyone here chooses to ignore ..I,m not anti vax - Had my first shot this week, ( its taken awhile to access Moderna where I live, my vaccine of choice )  I,m anti discrimination and strongly anti apartheid

 But live with your decisions and the consequences from those personal choices. 

Then let it go, and move on. *sigh*

Governments using apartheid as a form of coercion / social blackmail to force the population to undergo a medical procedure on their own bodies that some are opposed to is something I find abhorrent. Apartheid is never OK and to see it introduced into Australia is something I never thought I would see in my lifetime and I will not just " let it go and move on ".

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[rogespeed]

not from the abc (aust) but

https://survivalmagazine.org/news/dr-campbell-reveals-the-reason-behind-indias-ivermectin-blackout/

the CDC , WHO and even Youtube get a mention

[the_great_she_elephant]

                                                            😀SPOT THE DIFFERENCE😀

Janeababe wrote: So a covid vaccinated person can (may) still catch covid and may still pass it on to others. So what!

The chances are slim, it’s not zero, but it’s slim.

Chameleon replied: Thanks janebabe - at least one poster has the integrity to admit that double vaccinated people will almost certainly get COVID. 

[domino-710]

---

@chameleon54 wrote:

The truth is, as always, Its all about the $$$

---

LOL - follow the money.

https://time.com/6092368/americas-frontline-doctors-covid-19-misinformation/

[janeababe]

Hasn’t anybody looked at the economic outcome of all this yet? While I do realise that some folk have lost their income and are being govt supported, and that’s unfortunate, but how fortunate that they live in a country that can pay them a govt helping hand 😉.

But on the flip side, the real estate market is BOOMING!  Car sales are BOOMING.  Online shopping sales are BOOMING.  Extra home delivery services have created MULTIPLE jobs.  Big businesses have adjusted their work structure to accomodate working from home, and guess what…. BUSINESS IS THRIVING! 

There was an adjustment period, but hey….. THE ECONOMY is thriving! (Except travel agents and airlines to some extent) but here in Australia, we’re really not doing to bad, all things considering. 

I just don’t see the purpose of sprouting doom and gloom! The vaccine is NOT a govt secret conspiracy with hidden agendas!  It’s a short term stepping stone, to help the WORLD get back to some normality as we have known it.  But for now, it’s working…. It’s not perfect, but it’s damn better than nothing!  And whether you want to see it or not, it’s working! 

Some folk are just straight out *glass half empty* kinda folk.  Sad really! 

[not_for_sale2025]

---

@the_great_she_elephant wrote:

                                                            😀SPOT THE DIFFERENCE😀

Janeababe wrote: So a covid vaccinated person can (may) still catch covid and may still pass it on to others. So what!

The chances are slim, it’s not zero, but it’s slim.

Chameleon replied: Thanks janebabe - at least one poster has the integrity to admit that double vaccinated people will almost certainly get COVID. 

---

A few days ago the CHO of Queensland commented that every person in the State will contract Covid-19. It is therefore reasonable to assume that virtually every person in Australia will become infected. The key difference is that most fully vaccinated people will probably experience a minor sickness while unvaccinated people are more likely to become seriously ill, or die. 

This is referred to as living with the virus. I feel for those people who remain unvaccinated because they were misguided or have limited ability to comprehend the seriousness of this pandemic. But those people with capacity who exercised their right and choice to not accept the vaccine must accept responsibility for their decisions. This is the brutal reality of the present and the future.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

@chameleon54 wrote:

Thanks janebabe - at least one poster has the integrity to admit that double vaccinated people will almost certainly get COVID. 

Ignoring your misrepresentation of what janeababe posted, the way I read your post it is as if janeababe’s post is the first time you have read anyone other than yourself post that vaccinated people can get COVID.

There are quite a few others who have mentioned in posts that vaccinated people can still get COVID, and long before janeababe did in the post you replied to!

I went through this thread, the Possible drug treatments thread and the Plight of Victorians thread for instances where other posters have posted as much.  Once I found a reference by a poster I stopped looking for any other references by that member.  Many of the members listed below have posted that vaccinated people can get COVID in numerous posts.

@sprinyzone (post # 73 Plight of Victorians thread)

“the stats seem to be showing that those who are vaccinated may get covid but for the majority, it will help make the symptoms milder and give them a better chance of surviving.”

@countessalmirena (post # 146 Plight of Victorians thread)

“At best, current vaccines offer over 70% protection against being infected for those in their teens up to about 40; its effectiveness lowers slightly with increased age so that older people - say, those over 80 - have reduced effectiveness against becoming infected and are likely to require a third shot to increase that effectiveness. It's still an effectiveness of 63% or above, which is very good. That effectiveness wanes over time, just as natural immunity from recovered COVID-19 patients wanes.”

@k1ooo-slr-sales (post # 185 Plight of Victorians thread)

“Those that get vaccinated are still susceptible to getting COVID, but the effects on vaccinated people are reduced and they are less likely to pass it on to others.”

@padi*0409 (post # 346 Plight of Victorians thread)

“We know that vaccination doesn't stop people getting infected and transmitting that infection, but it has been proven that it cuts the rate down considerably and certainly lowers the effects of COVID infection, as well as dramatically reducing their chances of being admitted to hospital.”

@janeababe (post # 65 Possible drug treatment thread)  **way back in March this year**

“This vaccine won't stop you getting covid,  but it does claim to greatly reduce the risk of mortality from covid-19, and that's good enough for me.”

@icyfroth ( (post # 185 Possible drug treatment thread)  **quoting someone else*

“Being vaccinated does not make anyone a superhuman to COVID infection”

@rogespeed (post # 32 this thread)

“vaccination enables enhanced capacity to fight off an infection with 5 - 10 % of people suffering zero effectiveness ( published efficacy being 90 -95% ) , with days if infected contagious maybe without obvious symptoms ”

I only looked through 3 threads . . . threads that you have posted on!

**my apologies to anyone not listed above who has posted that vaccinated people can still get COVID**

And then, of course there is @4channel . . . many, many times!

[countessalmirena]

One of these days, we should compile the posts in those threads and turn them into a COVID Compendium of Thoughts, Assertions, References, Links, Rebuttals, Comments, and Contentions. 

A handy index would show how certain oft-visited topics are addressed by different posters.

Leather-bound edition, handsomely inscribed, to treasure for a lifetime.