seems mandatory vaccine is the go for the work place ....

[rogespeed]

The vaccine for covid , seems now being mandated for those currently employed

Seems like a violation of the existing conditions of employment for many , particularly whereby there is no mandate for  influenza vaccine requirement

Of course a harmless vaccine proven to mitigate against deadly covid-19 is desirable however some may object for whatever reason - and as are currently employed , one wonders the moral efficacy of coerced inoculation, as is clearly a workplace agreement item 

There is talk of dismissing currently employed workers for non-compliance

This to me would violate existing workplace agreements and a violation - fully paid leave would be the only  ethical way of excluding current employees ( unless all are retrenched then re-employed under covid safe clauses ) 

If there was no alternate to vaccination a strong case could be argued

But there are alternatives - periodic pcr tests,  daily check-in fast antigen tests , 1 minute on the treadmill 

The vaccines are released under emergency use meaning are experimental , so clearly fall under international law regarding strictly no forcing of experimental treatments

All that i am saying is that while inoculation is the most convenient , controllable and cost effective procedure , there should be an alternate process that meets workplace requirements

[chameleon54]

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@countessalmirena wrote:

The media has to bear some of the responsibility. Their irresponsible dramatising of the very very low adverse outcomes of the AstraZeneca vaccine played a huge part in generating some vaccine hesitancy. Ridiculous reporting. Even now, it's almost impossible to have a logical conversation with anyone about that extremely low percentage of blood clotting. If I try to explain by comparing risk (in percentages) of being severely injured or killed in a road accident, there's a definite wall up that means people are not listening. They're not computing the real risk. Their heads are so filled with a different narrative that they are ready to argue and pfffft before hearing the data.

Risk from COVID .............. I ran the numbers ( published statistics from reliable sources )  and in the full year 2020 in Australia, I was approx. 32 times more likely to die in a farming accident, ( adjusted to exclude children who died on farms ) than I was of dying of COVID.  Puts a bit of perspective on some of the media hype about COVID.

Yes COVID is a risk to health, but simply being employed in farming is a 32 times greater risk. Try telling that to some of our COVID panicked city cousins.

Just to illustrate the point

https://www.finder.com.au/most-dangerous-jobs-australia 

[janeababe]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

An extended family member owns a mechanical workshop in Victoria. Today he has announced that due to Dan Andrews mandates and threats of fines, he is being forced to sack two of his long term mechanics who refuse to be vaccinated. They work " out the back " and do not come into regular contact with customers. He wants to keep them on and they want to stay.

Being a regional business, they are not going to be easy to replace. The policy is putting the future viability of his business in jeopardy and a country community could lose an important local business. I can understand mandatory vaccination for health care workers and aged care workers, but this is going too far !

There's nothing proportionate in Dan Andrew's handling of COVID. The mans a dangerous megalomaniac.

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While I can empathise with bosses who are in these situations, I have to disagree that it’s Dan Andrew’s fault. 

And why is it different for health care workers? How is their exposure to covid any greater than a trades-person?  Just as easy for a covid positive person to go to a mechanic than to go to the hospital or visit an aged care home. After all, to visit a hospital or aged care facility is very restricted atm, so I would say that the risk of infection is greater in the public venues and businesses currently. 
If his mechanic business  is in jeopardy, it’s because 2 of his staff have decided not to be responsible employees by respecting their employers policy, the government health directive and turning their back on their role in community responsibilities. I’m not going to sugarcoat anything. To decline to be vaccinated is selfish. Pure and simple. It’s been a year now. We haven’t dropped dead from the vaccine and we haven’t had massive outbreaks of zombies running around, so what’s the damn issue here!?!? Oh right, your sovereignty and ‘right’ to not be forcibly penetrated!! 😑😑😑

For Goodness Sake!! 

[4channel]

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.. .. .. ..

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@countessalmirena wrote:

The media has to bear some of the responsibility. Their irresponsible dramatising of the very very low adverse outcomes of the AstraZeneca vaccine played a huge part in generating some vaccine hesitancy. Ridiculous reporting. Even now, it's almost impossible to have a logical conversation with anyone about that extremely low percentage of blood clotting. If I try to explain by comparing risk (in percentages) of being severely injured or killed in a road accident, there's a definite wall up that means people are not listening. They're not computing the real risk. Their heads are so filled with a different narrative that they are ready to argue and pfffft before hearing the data.

                                                                        ----------------------------------------------

@chameleon54 wrote:

Risk from COVID .............. I ran the numbers ( published statistics from reliable sources )  and in the full year 2020 in Australia, I was approx. 32 times more likely to die in a farming accident, ( adjusted to exclude children who died on farms ) than I was of dying of COVID.  Puts a bit of perspective on some of the media hype about COVID.

Yes COVID is a risk to health, but simply being employed in farming is a 32 times greater risk. Try telling that to some of our COVID panicked city cousins.

Just to illustrate the point

https://www.finder.com.au/most-dangerous-jobs-australia 

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                     ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trust you to use logic mate. 👍  In this issue there are certain obvious things overlooked by our political representatives that's for sure! Logic and actuality aren't always accepted today for some strange reason.

Wow, I didn't know that but farming is a profession for a certain kind of person. I've worked in various roles during my life where intense physical work is involved as well as mental stress. But with farming one has to be tough, physically and mentally.  Good old fashioned values too  I dare say. That's for sure.  Respect!

Now in those countries that treat their citizens with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin etc., countries that don't have the red-tape that we do, I dare say their city cousins would be doing OK. Possibly not as panicked as ours.

[4channel]

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@chameleon54 wrote:

An extended family member owns a mechanical workshop in Victoria. Today he has announced that due to Dan Andrews mandates and threats of fines, he is being forced to sack two of his long term mechanics who refuse to be vaccinated. They work " out the back " and do not come into regular contact with customers. He wants to keep them on and they want to stay.

Being a regional business, they are not going to be easy to replace. The policy is putting the future viability of his business in jeopardy and a country community could lose an important local business. I can understand mandatory vaccination for health care workers and aged care workers, but this is going too far !

There's nothing proportionate in Dan Andrew's handling of COVID. The mans a dangerous megalomaniac.

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                                                           -------------------------------------------------------------

This both truly saddens and angers me. I feel for those two men and I think, what a traumatic ordeal for them. Also the man from your extended family, I can imagine this will affect him as well.  This cannot be Australia! In 1967, Australia came of age when Indigenous folk were given recognition and could vote etc..  Here we are 54 years later and the precious sovereignty of all Australians, is being taken away in something that would have been considered unfathomable in recent times.

Due to the fact that "jabbed" people can still carry and spread the virus there's no justification on this earth to threaten a man or woman's livelihood. If pharmaceutical (BIG PHARMA) influence 💵💲 $$💲$$$ succeeds where it wants to, meets with gross political incompetence and a man with grandiose visions of himself, lookout!

Sacking someone like this, destroying their life, pushing people to the edge and over it in a lot of cases cannot be justified! Across the ocean, in the US, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, Christopher Murray more than alludes to the fact that vaccinated people not being tested may be the reason transmission by vaccinated people is overlooked...   Looking at one area in the US, CDC head Rochelle Walensky said said the “pivotal discovery” was that vaccinated people infected with delta appear to have  just as much virus in their systems  as those who are unvaccinated. Now back here with the  bungling, gross incompetence, possible "over vaccinating" we could see a super bug according to a top doctor from Texas A&M College of Medicine. But people who stand for their rights are given the option, take the jab or lose your job and be a leper & low-caste citizen(?) for the rest of your life.

[chameleon54]

The risks in farming are real, it is not simply a statistical blip, but we just accept the risk and get on with it. It does keep life interesting though.

Unfortunately society has become so institutionalised and wrapped up in a cotton wool " keep everyone safe " attitude that nothing gets done and people in general dont experience full lives. Hence the rampant mental health problems society is experiencing.

They go to their " safe " work, pushing a computer mouse all day, drive their " safe" car home on the " safe " road, stopping off at their " safe " supermarket. They live in a " safe " little house ( made of ticky tacky ) in a " safe " suburb with identical " safe " neighbours. On the weekends the kids play " safe " sport and the parents go to a " safe " walking trail or watch a " safe " movie. The rest of the time is spent on " safe ? " social media. Little of value is achieved and absolutely NOTHING is actually done or produced. 

Its no wonder people are so mentally damaged and bored ( answer - consumerism ) and work all year to escape for ten days in Bali. Been there, Done that, never want to do it again !

[the_great_she_elephant]

Well, there are some very interesting inferences to be drawn from that little rant.

1. Unsafe workplaces are to be preferred to safe ones. 

2. Only those working in an unsafe environment can produce anything of value.

3. Suburban houses are less well constructed than rural ones.

4. Neighbours should be enemies not friends.

5. Children should be encouraged to take up dangerous sports.

6. We should do away with road rules and, presumably, drivers' licences, and let everyone take their chances in a free-for-all

7. Staying safe is only for  wimps.

[domino-710]

I simply thought Bali would be rejoicing. 😂

[twyngwyn]

Woolworths and Coles unveil no jab no work plan for 290,000 staff (thenewdaily.com.au)

[4channel]

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@twyngwyn wrote:

Woolworths and Coles unveil no jab no work plan for 290,000 staff (thenewdaily.com.au)

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Disgusting! It appears that the enemy the Anzacs bravely fought against in WWI and WWII has been reincarnated.  How can there be any justification for this when  . .. .. .. ..

* US, the director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, Christopher Murray has given strong indication that vaccinated people can spread the virus, He gave strong indications that vaccinated people not being tested may be the reason transmission by vaccinated people is overlooked...  

*  It was Rochelle Walensky, head of the CDC in the US who said the “pivotal discovery” was that vaccinated people infected with delta appear to have  just as much virus in their systems  as those who are unvaccinated.

* Due to possible "over vaccinating",  a top doctor from Texas A&M College of Medicine says - we could see a super bug!

? ? ? ? ?

There's more, so much more.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

@4channel

it is disgraceful that you reference the ANZACS in your post.

A new low.