where is freedom

[wilk1149]

The only way to even try to maintain freedom is to not let them take away your firearms. How many free countries disallow its citizens to own firearms.

[aps1080]

The big difference between you and me is I don't want to destroy your freedom of choice but you are bent on destroying mine

That is the big issue with lots of antis, they want to restrict you but don't like vice versa.

Re gun laws, if you make them too onerous, eventually people will ignore them totally an djust go illegal

and F/A the Gov't can do about it.

[azureline**]

I am sorry for your loss Hawk.

Had you read on further before replying....................... I have agreed that they may have found another way........... my other younger cousin also found a rope.

The thing is, I have aunts, nieces and nephews and cousins who found them.............some as young as 5 yo. That's the trauma I was talking about.

I know what I am talking about, just as you do.

[myoclon1cjerk]

There's really argument when it comes to this subject.

The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world, researchers found.
A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people - more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.
Japan, on the other hand, had only .6 guns per 100 people and .06 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people, making it the country with both the fewest guns per capita and the fewest gun-related deaths.
Drs. Sripal Bangalore, who works at NYU Langone Medical Center, and Dr. Franz Messerli of St. Luke's Medical Center studied the statistics of guns per capita and gun deaths. They used firearm injury data from the World Health Organization
 and guns per capita data from the Small Arms Survey
 to put together a list of 27 developed countries.
They said they carried out their study because of what they said are seemingly baseless claims on either side of the gun control debate.
"I think we need more of what I would call evidence-based discussion and not merely people pulling things out of their hats," Bangalore said. "We hear time and time again about these shootings, especially in the last year or so. A lot of claims are made…so we wanted to look at the data and see if any of this holds water."
They concluded that more guns do not make people safer.
David Hemenway, a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health who specializes in injury research and is considered one of the top gun violence researchers in the country, said the there's "no question" that the relationship between guns and gun deaths is real.
"It shouldn't be really a surprise to people," Hemenway said.
There are some caveats to the data, such as countries' records of illegal guns, but it seems to be "reasonable" and on par with previous research, Hemenway said.
The National Rifle Association did not immediately respond to ABCNews.com request for comment.
Here's the full list:Country Guns per 100 Total Firearm-related Deaths per 100,000 United States 88.8 10.2 Switzerland 45.7 3.84 Finland 45.3 3.64 Sweden 31.6 1.47 Norway 31.3 1.78 France 31.2 3 Canada 30.8 2.44 Austria 30.4 2.94 Iceland 30.3 1.25 Germany 30.3 1.1 New Zealand 22.6 2.66 Greece 22.5 1.5 Belgium 17.2 2.43 Luxembourg 15.3 1.81 Australia 15 1.04 South Africa 12.7 9.41 Turkey 12.5 0.72 Denmark 12 1.45 Malta 11.9 2.16 Italy 11.9 1.28 Spain 10.4 0.63 Ireland 8.6 1.03 Portugal 8.5 1.77 Israel 7.3 1.86 United Kingdom 6.2 0.25 Netherlands 3.9 0.46 Japan 0.6 0.06

[poddster]

aps, I am in agreement with you regarding the shambles the gun laws are in.

Here is one scenario that i know of.

A person was a member of a pistol club for 28 years and an office holder for 2 of those years and state champion for 3 years running in one discipline. the person then suffered a badly broken wrist and disposed of their handguns and let the membership lapse.

In the mean time Martin Bryant happened.

After 11 years of working on their wrist they were able to shoot again, so the person rejoined the same club and applied for a license.

This person had to sit a firearms safely course at a cost of $180. From the time of reapplication to the time that they were allowed to be granted a permit to acquire 14 months went by.

Six of those months, even after having a full handgun license, they were not permitted to own a hand gun for 6 months after the licence was granted.

Now the stupid part emerges.

Under the law the were permitted to borrow a hand gun from a licenced club member for the intervening six month period as advised by the firearms clerk.

Crazy???.

[myoclon1cjerk]

Edit.The first line in my previous post should have read:"There's really no argument when it comes to this subject".

[myoclon1cjerk]

On the subject of pistol clubs,I knew a guy in S.A who after being sponsored by a pistol club member,was finally permitted by law to purchase his own pistol.Six months later he shot someone in a pizza bar after an argument.The guy died.

[poddster]

No need for anyone to reply but it is worth thinking about.

It someone was pointing a gun at you or your family and you had access to a gun, what would YOU do?

[twyngwyn]

I remember working in a bank in the 70s/80s and each supervisor had a pistol in their tray/drawer/filing cabinet....just in case.....and had to go to the local rifle range for lessons every year. That was back in the days before ATMs, and banks held way too much cash.....now they hold next-to-nothing so other retailers have become targets.... the problem is still there - it's just moved

[poddster]

I had a retail establishnent and my policy was that if someone demanded the money i would smile and ask if they wanted a laptop as well:)

All covered by insurance so why risk getting injured?

[twyngwyn]

Exactly