This entire thread is an offering to the god of didnotusebrainatfullcapacity.
I am not saying that people who fall for these scams are stupid. Sometimes it's lack of experience, and sometimes it's naïveté, and sometimes it's (I'm sorry to say) being blinded by greed.
- However it may be, the first sign of these sorts of scam is a deal that is TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. (Usual story will have excuses as to why price is so low, such as needing to sell by particular date or having to leave quickly (see "HURRY HURRY HURRY" below) or needing the money urgently.) Amazing condition vehicle - car, boat, caravan, motorbike, jetpack, whatever - lady driver, always garaged, etc., etc. - at a price that is well below what you'd expect to pay. TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.
- The second sign of these sorts of scam is HURRY HURRY HURRY, buy quickly before the amazing opportunity is gone. (Usual story will be full of excuses such as about to be deployed, about to be sent o/s for work, etc.)
- The third sign of these sorts of scam is INABILITY FOR YOU TO VIEW ITEM IN PERSON before any money leaves your bank account or purse or hands. (See "Giving buyer sense of security" below.) Buying a car online is really incredibly risky; I don't recommend it.
- The fourth sign of these sorts of scam is a story about how THE SELLER IS NOT ABLE TO BE CONTACTED READILY. (Usual excuses - in the military, on an oil rig, working in accessible area, etc.)
- The fifth sign of these sorts of scam is a backstory that seems warm and tugs at the heartstrings, such as recent divorce, money needed for mother, kids to be looked after, etc. (When you're buying a car, you don't need a backstory from the seller. Your spidey senses should tingle at any attempt to engage you emotionally by the seller.)
- The sixth sign of these sorts of scam is with the seller attempting to create trust by GIVING BUYER SENSE OF SECURITY with the sale. Any mention of eBay Motor and eBay acting as escrow are dead giveaways, of course. There isn't any eBay Escrow service. eBay doesn't work like that. Getting you to pay by bank transfer is yet another big red flag. (I'll explain below.)
- The seventh sign of these sorts of scam is that the seller says that if you inspect the car upon delivery and don't like it, it will be delivered back to the seller at seller's expense. In what world does that happen???? La La La La Land, that's where.
- The eighth sign of these sorts of scam is the additional requirement for you to send a copy of your personal ID to the seller. Your ID documents ought to be kept safe, and not sent off to any Tom, Dick or Harriet. When required to show ID, you should consider the source of that request.
Who is perpetrating these scams?
It's not one person. It's not one woman. It's almost certainly not just one crime syndicate involved, although there was a major crime ring very active in this particular sort of scam between 2013 and 2018. Many of these scams originate from Eastern Europe, and the eBay Motors scam was primarily being run from Romania. There are almost certainly some Australians involved, but it's quite a complicated scam if we look at it in its entirety.
To start with, scammers want to collect someone's ID, so that they can a) open up Australian bank accounts, and b) convince buyers (or sellers of quite high-value items) that they're dealing with a real person. The scammers use the ID provided by unwitting victims to lure other victims and gain more IDs. Identity theft is one often unconsidered aspect of the eBay Motors scam that could devastate someone's life.
Sometimes a duped "romance scam" victim will be involved in the bank account transfer (transferring received money from their account to an overseas account, for instance).
With the aid of those IDs, the scammers will get as much as they can from the buyer/victim. That includes the buyer's ID and the buyer's money.
7News story of one particular example: https://7news.com.au/news/vic/aussies-attempt-to-buy-new-car-lands-her-at-centre-of-international-cr...
Where does the money end up?
When you make a payment to the nominated bank account, it will almost immediately be whisked out of that bank account... either being used to buy Bitcoin which can then be transferred over, or to a foreign bank. The point is that the money will be non-recoverable. It is very unlikely that you can stop or reverse the transfer (although I always advise people to call their bank instantly if they realise that they've been scammed, just in case the transfer can be stopped.
This is criminally obtained money, being money-laundered, and subsequently being used to fund more crime and the lifestyles of the criminals involved.
So there's no "Debra" or "Samantha" [or equivalent]?
No. There is not. This isn't a single-person scam. The scammers involved are part of a criminal syndicate, either as members or as employees. They work from a script, which is why you'll see the same modus operandi and the same sorts of replies.
But what about the car/caravan/boat/vehicle?
There is no car (or other vehicle). The listing or details for it would have been stolen at least in part from some other genuine listing or post, and then edited to make it the most attractive lure possible. (Single old lady driver, low kilometres, unrealistically low price, etc.) The photos will have been taken from some genuine listing or post. The listing that caught your eye is something like a Frankenstein Monster listing - photos from here, details from there, attractive terms from the scammers' script...
There's really no car. Nothing will be delivered. It's a scam.
eBay escrow???
The buyer is assured that eBay will hold the money in escrow, and that the buyer has only to inform eBay of a problem and the money will be released back to them. THAT IS FALSE. eBay does not offer an escrow service. eBay Motors AU is quite different to the US eBay Motors, so be careful to look at the Australian eBay Motors T&Cs.
On eBay Motors AU, listings clearly state "(Not eligible for eBay purchase protection programs)". That's a warning to the buyer not to rely on eBay protection for the payment made to the seller.
You'll also see that almost invariably the eBay listing will say Cash on Pickup. It is explicitly stated on eBay's Buying vehicles, parts and accessories Help Page that ❝It's OK for the seller to ask you to pay for a vehicle in person, but we recommend using a safe, traceable payment method. Avoid using instant cash transfer services (such as Western Union) or transferring money to an overseas account.❞ Of course cash isn't a "safe, traceable payment method", but it's fine to pay by cash on pickup as long as you've done your due diligence... had the vehicle inspected (do NOT skimp on this!), checked that there's a clear title, checked the vehicle's history, checked that it's not stolen, test-driven it... You know the sort of thing.
If you're buying from a dealer rather than a private seller, you can pay by card. If you're buying from a private seller, make triply sure you've done your due diligence and also be certain to get a receipt. Have a third party (such as your mechanic) with you, perhaps.
But won't eBay protect me?
No. eBay is not involved in the scam in any way. Its name is used to create a false sense of security. It's the same as if a scammer reached out to you on Facebook and pretended to be your mother, and gave you a cockamammy story about being abducted and mugged in Somalia and needing an immediate urgent transfer of money. If you are fooled into transferring that money, and then find out that your mother is safely at her home and hasn't been off to Somalia and has certainly never received those thousands of dollars, you're not going to expect your mother to reimburse you... are you? Her name was taken in vain... and in the eBay Motors scam, eBay's name is taken in vain.
So... no. eBay cannot possibly protect you from a scammer who is misrepresenting themselves (in part of the scam) as being this fictitious eBay Escrow.
But don't eBay have a responsibility to me with these scams?
The listing might be on Facebook Marketplace (very popular place for this type of scam). It might be on Gumtree. It might be on various other online car buying sites. eBay is invoked in the listing or post in order to soothe the buyer's qualms... but eBay is not involved and bears neither explicit nor implicit responsibility for any losses you may incur as a result of the scam. Check the T&Cs by going directly to eBay.com.au in a new browser, then going to Help to search.
e-Sense for vehicle-purchasing
This is all information that the would-be buyer should already know, but I acknowledge that people can make bad decisions under pressure. Please keep in mind these simple steps before you buy a vehicle online:
- Do not expect an unrealistic bargain. Look at the market value, look at the price set by other sellers for similar vehicles in similar condition, and be wary if the offered price is considerably cheaper than that.
eBay's Help Page says ❝Use extra caution if an item is listed significantly below the suggested retail price.❞ - But - and here's the catch - that "caution" doesn't mean allowing the seller to control the caution narrative. "Caution" means that you follow THESE POINTS. Remember that scammers can and do provide convincing-looking fake receipts, documents, ID, websites, phone calls, chat facilities... the lot. Post on these boards and ask for advice if there's even a faintly pink flag in your mind. It doesn't matter if you post here and get brusque replies and feel as though some posters are not giving you sympathetic help. It DOES matter if you allow yourself to be pushed and rushed by the seller into being scammed out of your hard-earned money and putting your identity at risk. - Do your due diligence.
- Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER ever EVER EVER provide a photo or scan or screenshot or videochat closeup of your driver licence or passport or other ID to a seller. You may have to provide such documentation to financial institutions or government bodies or representatives - but if you provide them to an online "seller", you compromise your identity. If a seller provides YOU with a copy of THEIR ID documents, be suspicious rather than relieved.
- Be suspicious of offers of free delivery and free return shipping if not satisfied. Vehicle delivery is not going to be provided free by the seller. The Australian defence force doesn't offer free delivery of vehicles for serving members.
- Insist on viewing the vehicle in person before even contemplating a purchase (and that includes the whole "escrow" nonsense).
- Speak personally to the owner, by phone and in person.
- Don't be rushed. There's no urgency. It's just a vehicle, not a life-saving liver transplant. Do not fall victim to FOMO.
- Don't enter into lots of email or SMS chit-chat. The more you say, the more you give away without realising it. The more you allow the scammer to communicate, the more chance you give the scammer to lower your guard. If there are red flags, PAUSE... and... just... let yourself think... before you do anything else. Cut off all communication immediately if you suspect a scam.
There are many other threads about these types of scams. I'm just throwing as much information into this response as I can, in support of every other post in this thread which says exactly what I am saying.
