Buyer Gave Neg Unfairly

[21ladyluck]

Buyer bought a puzzle from me. It's securely wrapped and put in a large envelope to keep the postage down.

So there is NO tracking unless the buyer wants to pay for a "signature", which they don't for low cost items.

I always take photos while at the post office of the buyers address and AP postage imprint.

Buyer emailed me she never got it. I sent her the photo showing it was sent and to check with the post office.

She said it was my fault as there was no tracking. That wouldn't have helped anyway as we all know. I explained why.

I said I was sorry but I'm not responsible and will not give a refund. After all, I have NO proof that she did not get it and simply wanted the money back. We all know there are some buyers like that.

So she's given me neg feedback unfairly. It's the first one I've gotten and I have over 1500 feedbacks.

How do I reply to her negative feedback to tell the truth about what happened ??

Pam

[phorum_junkie*]

This discussion was about unregistered letters, not parcels, and even if a printed stamp is generated the letter is more often than not returned to the customer to place it in the box. It is no different to purchasing a stamp and sticking it on the parcel at home. It does not just happen at my local PO, who will if a bag collection is due take it over the counter, but many POs.

So I repeat a photograph of an unregistered, stamped letter is only proof that the postage has been paid for.

[the_billycan]

Here's the thing and I will admit to being somewhat emotional about it. I don't want to use Preypal and never did. As far as I am concerned it is a rip-off and a fraud. I want to have my listings without using it, but I don't have the choice. eBay in a MASSIVE conflict of interest (being that it is an eBay subsidiary) have made it mandatory and used funds that they extorted from all sellers to advertise its use so now buyers are less likely to purchase from those same sellers any other way. So once again, as long as they acknowledge I follow their rules, I don't give a frying flick, what they think.

Your supposed scenarios were all so much twaddle as I pointed out but I am beginning to suspect that that is all I can expect. I think it is probably a good thing if I ignore you from here on in. 

[the_billycan]

It is true that we now have to put up with all these Australia Post franchises most of which are run by inexperienced staff, but any clerk in one of these or in an official outlet for that matter, who returns mail to the poster to put in an outdoor letter receiver is breaking enough laws pertaining to the security of mail, to earn a very long prison sentence, if caught. If one of them did that to me, I would be on to the police so fast they would be wondering what hit them.

[davewil1964]

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@the_billycan wrote:

Here's the thing and I will admit to being somewhat emotional about it. I don't want to use Preypal and never did. As far as I am concerned it is a rip-off and a fraud. I want to have my listings without using it, but I don't have the choice. eBay in a MASSIVE conflict of interest (being that it is an eBay subsidiary) have made it mandatory and used funds that they extorted from all sellers to advertise its use so now buyers are less likely to purchase from those same sellers any other way. So once again, as long as they acknowledge I follow their rules, I don't give a frying flick, what they think.

Your supposed scenarios were all so much twaddle as I pointed out but I am beginning to suspect that that is all I can expect. I think it is probably a good thing if I ignore you from here on in. 

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No they haven't, as I'm sure you're aware as you've been on the boards for longer than a few seconds.

eBay mandate a payment method that provides a buyer with a level of protection. You have a choice of 3, it's just that most buyers won't use the other 2. I certainly wouldn't use Paymate as a buyer (thus, nor as a seller) simply because there are, imo, unreasonable restrictions on legitimate buyer issues. Besides, Paymate is no cheaper than Paypal, and merchant CC facility would only be if your volumes were fairly high.

[thecatspjs]

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@phorum_junkie* wrote:

This discussion was about unregistered letters, not parcels, and even if a printed stamp is generated the letter is more often than not returned to the customer to place it in the box. It is no different to purchasing a stamp and sticking it on the parcel at home. It does not just happen at my local PO, who will if a bag collection is due take it over the counter, but many POs.

So I repeat a photograph of an unregistered, stamped letter is only proof that the postage has been paid for.

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My understanding, which could be incorrect I will freely admit, is that when an article, including a letter, that is pre-paid  (including paying for postage paid imprint over the counter - and having sticker attached to article) is considered as lodged when article is payment is made and accepted and stickered by an Aust Post employee. 

IMO, according to legislation and terms and condtions of article carriage, It seems to be quite different than buying a stamp and then an individual placing it on the envelope and placing it on the box.

According to AP there are quite specific requirements that must be met regarding return of an article that has been lodged - I understand that such requests are required in writing.

Unlike others, I doubt paypal would go down a decision making path that explores if lodged articles are then returned to the person lodging them.

[k1ooo-slr-sales]

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@phorum_junkie* wrote:

This discussion was about unregistered letters, not parcels, and even if a printed stamp is generated the letter is more often than not returned to the customer to place it in the box.

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not at any the post offices I use.  If I hand over a stamped envelope/package and they postmark it I do not get the option to take it outside to post it in a box.  Once it goes over the counter it stays over the counter.  Take a look at post #13 on http://community.ebay.com.au/t5/Selling/Any-Post-Office-workers-here-can-illuminate-Posting-parcels-... where an Aust Post rep wrote "It is very concerning to hear items are being handed back you after being scanned PJ. This certainly is not correct process and I would like to look further into this."

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@phorum_junkie* wrote:

It is no different to purchasing a stamp and sticking it on the parcel at home.

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there is a difference. If you mean a 'stamp' imprinted with the post office location, parcel weight, time, date and cost  (the 'label' type that is printed at the time of paying the postage) then there is a huge difference as I don't think you can buy/pay postage for parcels like that without the parcel being there at the time you pay.  In this case the parcel should be kept by the staff regardless of whether posting boxes are collected before over-the-counter items.

If you mean regular postage stamps, well there is a difference as they are not postmarked at time of purchase before you take them home.

It is Australia Post policy that parcels/letters lodged over the counter and postmarked remain in the post office and not be returned to the customer for posting outside of the post office premises, and if anybody is prepared to violate this policy then what is to say they wouldn't violate other policies (I think this is the common phrase you use when someone admits to leaving a false positive feedback for non-payers).

Don't get me wrong PJ, I realise that you probably post many many items and your PO staff trust you 100%, but for you to post that information here is just plain wrong.  Keep it to yourself as there are some out there reading your posts who would not be as trustworthy as most.

[*crikey*mate*]

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@the_billycan wrote:

Here's the thing and I will admit to being somewhat emotional about it. I don't want to use Preypal and never did. As far as I am concerned it is a rip-off and a fraud. I want to have my listings without using it, but I don't have the choice. eBay in a MASSIVE conflict of interest (being that it is an eBay subsidiary) have made it mandatory and used funds that they extorted from all sellers to advertise its use so now buyers are less likely to purchase from those same sellers any other way. So once again, as long as they acknowledge I follow their rules, I don't give a frying flick, what they think.

Your supposed scenarios were all so much twaddle as I pointed out but I am beginning to suspect that that is all I can expect. I think it is probably a good thing if I ignore you from here on in. 

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you're very rude, and not at all objective.

have you always been like that or is it just a condition of being old and believe that your life experience outweighs the knowledge and experience of we youngsters?

The scenarios are real and as a law student and business graduate and soon to be commerce graduate, I am being trained to look t the over arching ramifications and implementations of both business practises and the law.

[thecatspjs]

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@the_billycan wrote:

It is true that we now have to put up with all these Australia Post franchises most of which are run by inexperienced staff, but any clerk in one of these or in an official outlet for that matter, who returns mail to the poster to put in an outdoor letter receiver is breaking enough laws pertaining to the security of mail, to earn a very long prison sentence, if caught. If one of them did that to me, I would be on to the police so fast they would be wondering what hit them.

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That it may happen is bad enough, there are unscrupulous sellers no doubt about that.

  .....  I am still scratching my head though why anyone would post such practices publicly and potentially put at risk their future as an ebay seller through admitting such actions in writing, and possibly being seen as encouraging others to do the same

[the_billycan]

eBay mandated a payment method that provides a buyer with a level of protection after they stopped providing that protection under the eBay banner even though that was one of the reasons sellers were paying their fees, so that they could justify the use of Preypal (you know that company they bought) and double dip on the fees. You say I have a choice of 3 payment methods and then give sound reasons not to use the other 2. Then you claim I have a choice. Wow, that is one twisted argument!! Pick a side and stick to it.

[21ladyluck]

I NEVER said I made the decision based on her feedback. I said earlier that made the decision based on what she wrote in all the emails she sent me.

You said I should have checked feedback she gave others first. Sorry, but I did not have any idea to do that until you told me. And I thank you for telling me about that.  In the past I have only checked the feedback that others give the buyer.

So my point about what she did to other sellers was simply to say that it backed up my earlier decision not to give a refund.

I have given refunds before for a variety of reasons. I never feel bad about that either. As you say, I put myself in the place of the buyer and try to act the way I would want to be treated. I even had one lovely lady mail me candy as a thank you (long story).

HOWEVER, the emails I received from her made me uncomfortable. I've learned to trust my gut and so decided I would stand my ground on this one and refuse the refund.

All of this took place within 2 days. It was too late at night to contact eBay on the first day, but I did immediately contact them the next morning. I was advised not to give the refund while they looked into the matter.

It may be a good business strategy is to pay off someone so they go away, but that's not my style and never will be. Sure it would be easier and save me a lot of trouble. Cheaper in the long run too. I knew all these things when I refused the refund.

As someone said here, we each have our own business style.

Funny how you say I handled this with emotion. I'm human and I react when someone tries to cheat me. If that's not businesslike, so be it. I won't apologize for getting upset. Dealing with bad people upsets me. Then I do what I have to do and deal with the consequences.

Pam