Did eBay just commit theft??

[motoheaven_com_au]

Has anyone encounter the following issue before, since when has it been okay for eBay to gift a customer of ours a product that we have not received payment for? This does not seem right on so many levels so here it is.. 

On the Wednesday afternoon 13/10/2021  I sold a product to the value of $793.00, there was an issue with getting the product shipped originally due to a break down of communication however the product was then shipped via the delivery partner on Tuesday 19/10/2021.

The tracking details where uploaded and the customer and I could see the item was on the way. However it has been known that COVID-19 is still causing issues for all shipping partners here in Australia and it is possible that delivery's may take longer than usual.

After the date of despatch the customer then opened a 'Item not received' dispute (complete understandable) as the delivery partner had now had the item for over a week. The customer was then issued a refund by eBay and the sale deducted from our account despite us resupplying tracking information and communicating the delivery partners delay.

Given the situation above, the boots now remain our property as they have not been paid for and eBay has taken the sale away and it would be up to us to seek compensation from the delivery partner. However as the product was never "Lost" just delayed, it was delivered at a later date 13/11/2021. The delivery partner will no longer provide any compensation being the service was completed.

We contact the customer to arrange the return of the item at our expense and we received the following message which he claims was sent to him by eBay.

Before we take this further has anyone been in a similar situation and found a reasonable solution?

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[jellybirddesigns]

Thanks Papermoon - wasn't focussing properly.

Defintely contact CS and tell them that they are also not following their own guidelines for sellers.

If you send the item within your handling period to the address on record, then they are supposed to to support you, especially as they're making a big deal out of helping during the delays. This is from Ebay:

Seller Protections on eBay

When you consistently deliver good buying experiences, we'll protect you from abusive buying behaviour and from events outside your control. These include:

• Automatic seller protection
• Protection from abusive buying activity
• Events outside your control
• Protection from eBay Money Back Guarantee requests
• Protection for eBay Plus sellers
• Protection for sellers whose payments are being managed by eBay
• International selling protection

This delay was out of your control and they should never have refunded the buyer!

[springyzone]

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@papermoon.lady wrote:

If your item arrives after you've received a refund

It's possible that your item may still arrive after you've been issued a refund. If this happens, you should get in touch with the seller and try to reach an agreement on what to do next. You can choose to either:

• Return the item and keep the refund
• Keep the item and arrange to reimburse the seller

From: https://www.ebay.com.au/help/buying/returns-refunds/get-help-item-hasnt-arrived?id=4042#:~:text=If%2...

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The main thing I am picking up from that bit above is that ebay would like a buyer to do that but there is absolutely nothing in place (that I can see) that forces a buyer to do it.

And this buyer seems to know that. They have their refund, they have the boots. They are probably telling themselves that they are justified to keep them as compensation for being messed around.

Bottom line is that (unlike with sellers) ebay probably does not have access to any account to reclaim the money. So the buyer is going to get to keep both the money and boots, that's pretty much a given.

Ebay is going to try to offload responsibility on this one. They are going to tell the seller to sort it out with the buyer. Which is not going to work, it has already been tried.

Motoheaven. Resending a formal message mentioning repayment or return before debt collectors need to be called in may work.

But if it doesn't, I'd say get all the evidence in a list in front of you, at your fingertips. Dates, uploaded tracking details, delivery details, messages to show you have already tried several times to get a response from the buyer, to no avail.

Repeat ebay's policy, the one jellybird posted. Keep calm and polite but if they fob you off, repeat it again. And again. Till they get the point.

They made a mistake in refunding. They can fix it by also refunding you now but they will resist that at first because ebay itself will be out of pocket then. But keep trying.

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[papermoon.lady]

I agree, Springy. Ebay does not really care about what happens if an item turns up after a buyer receives a refund, and many sellers here had to fight themselves, hire a debt collector etc. What sounded strange is that the eBay representative allegedly told the buyer to consider it a "gift" in case the item arrives after the refund, although I cannot exclude that an unexperienced representative would say that.

[gutterpunkz05]

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@jellybirddesigns wrote:

Thanks Papermoon - wasn't focussing properly.

Defintely contact CS and tell them that they are also not following their own guidelines for sellers.

If you send the item within your handling period to the address on record, then they are supposed to to support you, especially as they're making a big deal out of helping during the delays. This is from Ebay:

Seller Protections on eBay

When you consistently deliver good buying experiences, we'll protect you from abusive buying behaviour and from events outside your control. These include:

• Automatic seller protection
• Protection from abusive buying activity
• Events outside your control
• Protection from eBay Money Back Guarantee requests
• Protection for eBay Plus sellers
• Protection for sellers whose payments are being managed by eBay
• International selling protection

This delay was out of your control and they should never have refunded the buyer!

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But did the  OP  meet their handling time, if not is the above still relevant or void.

OP indicates initial delay of 6 days before item shipped

[jellybirddesigns]

ahhh - good point @gutterpunkz.

Yes, the OP needs to clarify what their handling time was.

I did use the qualifier "if" they sent within their handling time, but absolutely could have made the wrong assumption that they had indeed done so.

I think that even if it's the case that they did send outside their handling time, the buyer doesn't get to keep the item and the money. Whilst they may not have protection from Ebay in that regards, they still have legal ways to recoup the funds.

[papermoon.lady]

It appears that it was outside their handling time (looking at his listings), and I can understand the original refund, but I agree with Jelly that the buyer shouldn't keep both the item and the money, particularly considering the price of the item (almost $800). 

[jellybirddesigns]

Yup - a buyer who has even the slightest bit of integrity would have refused the package and had it returned to the seller. This shows that the buyer knew that the item would eventually be received and that they just got lucky by getting the refund and the item, which they had every intention of keeping.

[gutterpunkz05]

Agree, the buyer should be either returning the goods or repaying.  I missed what ever the supposed  ebay message was, but gather it indicated the buyer could consider the item a gift if it arrived, but in reality it would then be a civil matter between the OP and the buyer as the OP has not relinquished ownership, no matter what an ebay CS rep may or may not have indicated.

I believe the OP should strongly convey this to the buyer and demand immediate payment or return of the item or  legal/debt recovery actions will be instigated.

[jellybirddesigns]

I think that requesting repayment of funds is better than asking for the item back as they most likely have been used and/or the seller could damage them on purpose before returning.

[papermoon.lady]

I am not sure this is possible, but I was just thinking... If the buyer paid with PayPal and then the money was refunded into his PP account, could PP help if they see that the item was now delivered? I think they should, as they also offer seller protection?