Does the presentation of a successful written description on ebay rely on inference?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

I believe it does. What about you? Some background below but I reckon "as you sow so shall you reap" to me has just

not got the same sting as "as u so sew shall you repe" but by using some comprehension skills that create an inference

  I am able to recognize the second phrase,however, if many of those garbled phrases are grouped together then

that task (for me anyways) becomes a laborious chore.

http://www.criticalreading.com/inference_reading.htm

Inference: Reading Ideas as Well as Words

Ideally, speakers mean what they say and say what they mean. Spoken communication is not that simple.

Much of what we understand—whether when listening or reading—we understand indirectly, by inference.

Listening involves a complex combination of hearing words, analyzing sentence structure, and attempting to find

meaning within the context of the given situation.

The situation with the written word is no different. A text does not contain a meaning.

Readers construct meaning by what they take the words to mean and how they process sentences to find meaning.

Readers draw on their knowledge of the language and of conventions of social communication.

They also draw on other factors, such as knowledge of the author (“Would Henry say such a thing?), the occasion (“No

one knew such things then!”), or the audience (“He’d never admit that publicly.”)

They infer unstated meanings based on social conventions, shared knowledge, shared experience, or shared values.

They make sense of remarks by recognizing implications and drawing conclusions.

Readers read ideas more than words, and infer, rather than find, meaning

http://www.speechlanguage-resources.com/inference-and-reading.html

Inference and Reading: Much of what an author writes is implied.

Authors expect their readers to fill in the gaps.

So, to truly comprehend or understand much of what an author writes, we, as readers, have to use our inference skills.

The more we are able to do this the better our inference and reading comprehension becomes.

And successful inference of written text is often reliant on us having good word and world knowledge.

[digital*ghost]

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@gec2002 wrote:

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Yes but a good advertisement (that's what the descriptions really is) should drive those perceptions in one direction, that is, buying the item.  So our Book example could perhaps include the following in the description

This book will change your life, from start to finish you  will not be able to put it down.  The best read this year by far - don't miss out only LIMITED copies available and there will be NO reprints.  First 500 buyers get a free bookmark.  This is a once in a lifetime offer, never to be repeated.

Who cares if you will never read it, the mere act of having it on your coffee table is enough to make you a darling of the literary establishment.

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It more than likely depends on the product itself, perhaps. To continue with the example of a book, I would personally prefer testimony over promise - they can say virtually the same thing, but the context is completely different, and it's much more likely to pique my interest if a third party I am familiar with (like, respect etc) says "this book changed my life", than if an unknown third party promises me it will change mine.

That's (kind of) what convinced me to buy one of the last books I purchased. The title is Edge of Dark Water by Joe R. Lansdale - never actually heard of either, but the quote on the front said "As funny and frightening as anything that could have been dreamed up by the Brothers Grimm - or Mark Twain" (from a New York Times review). 

It pretty much had me at "Brothers Grimm", but further quotes from other authors sealed the deal, much more than anything esle about it (cover, title, blurb, all things I would have normally passed over, but I liked the idea of a modern, twisted fairy tale, so I bought it. Didn't quite get what I thought I was getting, but a decent read none the less :D).

One of the things that actually used to really bug me about descriptions were things that tried to tell me how I would look and/or feel when using the product (eg I might like that dress, but I'm not interested in feeling like a fairy princess, thank you very much 😄 And I might really like a necklace, but it's not because it's going to connect me to some deep, mystical feminine goddess - that kind of stuff in descriptions really turns me off, and I decided years ago to predominantly be a "just the facts, ma'am" descriptionist 🙂 I don't want to tell people what to think and feel about a product, I want to show them what it is, and let them decide what to think and/or feel about it.

The furthest I've ever gone in descriptions is mention suitability for certain applications or uses, or my own personal inspiration (one of my first pieces that I sold was inspired by the film The Dark Crystal, and that's all I said about that fact - no specific refernces at all, and now, current pieces that draw from mythology and other things, I just mention it in an extremely vague, non-specific way - I don't even mention whether it's Greek, Celtic etc etc that inspired me, as I'd like anyone who really digs it to find their own meaning / affinity with it. 

[phorum_junkie*]

One of the things that actually used to really bug me about descriptions were things that tried to tell me how I would look and/or feel when using the product (eg I might like that dress, but I'm not interested in feeling like a fairy princess, thank you very much And I might really like a necklace, but it's not because it's going to connect me to some deep, mystical feminine goddess - that kind of stuff in descriptions really turns me off, and I decided years ago to predominantly be a "just the facts, ma'am"

So with you there DG.

I think the one I always hated most was items that started with: "You are bidding on......." Well guess what? No I am not,

Buyer will not be disappointed" Thank's for putting that idea in my head, better not bid just in case I prove you wrong LOL.

[colic2bullsgirlore]

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@pennyforum14 wrote:

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@colic2bullsgirlore wrote:

"book"

that's my entire ebay description... what does that infer?

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As a buyer, that description would "infer" to me that you are not really interested in making a sale, so yes, descriptions can rely on inference, but the more detail the seller has included, the less scope there is to infer anything other than the detail provided and the less scope for ambiguity.  I wouldn't look twice at a listing like you describe, I'd look elsewhere immediately.

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Penny I am using your post as an example as I think that many would have your opinion so please do not take this as a

question just addressed to you.

For the scenario let's say the book is desirable to you, scarce, listed at auction, and listed at about 1/10th ofn the going

price. Included in the ebay title is the book title, author and year of printing?

Also included are 12 photographs of the book, the ebay drop down menu description is "good" .

The post is set at free with paypal or bank deposit available as the payment modes, but the description field still only

contains the word "book"

As well, during the auction, any questions asked by prospective bidders are published on the bottom with the same answer

" Please refer to the above included description and photographs"

Would the extra information possibly entice you or any of the lurkers who originally would not have bid on the item to

bid on it?

[colic2bullsgirlore]

Doh... and....

the seller in the scenario has 100% feedback rating and has recently sold items with positive feedback. Upon investigation you find that all the items sold have singular word descriptions.

ie they are formatted the same is the item in the scenario.

[pennyforum14]

Sorry colic,  but I would still move on.  Particularly with books (and even with second hand books) sellers will often use stock photos or photos from eBay's photo gallery, the pics may not be a true representation of the actual item being offered for sale.  I have sold books myself and make a habit of never using stock pics and always include mention of any wear or faults in the description, even with photos of the actual item.  As for the title and author being in the listing header, that is as it should be, but if you think that would be enough for any buyer, then you are severely limiting your target audience.  Yes, you may catch the person who has been looking high and low for just that book, and you may even make a sale to that person, but in the meantime, there will probably be 99 others who saw no real information about the book and just moved on to the next search item.  Many auction bidders will not ask questions if they feel the information should have been included in the description.   It looks lazy to see a two or three word description, followed by answers to questions that should reasonably have been included without the need to ask.  In auction format, this could mean a lower sale price than you might have achieved with a better description.

At the very least, scans of the front and back of the book, large enough for the buyer to be able to read the synopsis of the storyline, are IMHO essential.  Personally when I list, I take the time to type the synopsis into the description area, and I also describe the condition of the book in detail, GOOD can mean different things to different people and leaves you wide open to INAD.

I don't mean to be overly critical, but you did ask, and as I do buy books fairly frequently,  I consider myself an average buyer.

[digital*ghost]

I would buy a book that had no written description from the seller - in fact, I have, several times. And CDs, DVDs etc. 

There are tons of sellers on here that do exactly that, often they have full-on templates with tons of words, none of which are actually related to the product, and all I have to go on is title, condition and item specifics pre-filled by eBay. These sellers are often among the highest volume media sellers, with their fair share of negs, too. 

But in those cases, I'm not looking for a collectible or anything, I'm looking for a reading copy at a decent price, so cover, edition and overall condition is not my primary concern, and no other info (about the product) is likely to affect my purchase decision at all.

[black*poppy]

I've always regarded the book market a bit differently from other categories.  Namely because there are other huge second hand book websites, namely abebooks and amazon, and I resent a bit that sellers using ebay as a selling platform have to be so much more particular than other platforms that have been doing it longer and better IMO.  Abebooks for instance only allow stock photo images and have a rating system for the amount of wear, priced accordingly.  So if you're used to trading books on other websites, ebay must seem so overly micro-managed and time-consuming in contrast. But if you only use ebay to buy books then I guess ebay have set up a different expectation, and trumpet the full power of buyers to leave negs etc.  Very poor system.

Yes I know the next step is to receive a lecture about I have every right to not shop on ebay if it doesn't suit - duly noted, as I never buy books on ebay.

[pennyforum14]

I guess buyers are all different DG.  I don't have much experience with buying books online elsewhere, plenty on eBay.  I have bought new books on Amazon, but not second hand.  And I'm not usually looking for a specific book, just for a good read, (although I might on occasion, especially the next in a series). I generally browse using the genre and want to know more about the book than just the title and author.  I would have though I was average, maybe I'm not so much.

Sorry, replied to the wrong post, this was in answer to DG's post.

[gec2002]

I think books and movies (DVDs Blu-rays) are some what different due to the enormous databases of information available via ISBN and EANs which eBay have tapped into.  So provided the seller has used the Item Specifics the lack of a description is less of an issue particularly for new items. But if you look at say dresses if the title just said Red Dress with no description the chances of a sale are slim, and any sale is likely to end with a return request.  Adding photos, size, and type in the title would help, but the further you move from mass produced uniform item (eg one copy of the Blu-ray "Birdman" EAN 9321337162669 is the the same as another copy of the Blu-ray EAN 9321337162669 so the eBay specifics work) to unique or small quantity items eg a Designer Dress the more the description becomes vital.

Sorry DG and PJ that neither of you got my rather tongue in cheek description, however the fact remains for most people it is more than just facts that makes a great ad that captures the buyers attention and makes them want to buy an item.

[digital*ghost]

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@pennyforum14 wrote:

I guess buyers are all different DG.  I don't have much experience with buying books online elsewhere, plenty on eBay.  I have bought new books on Amazon, but not second hand.  And I'm not usually looking for a specific book, just for a good read, (although I might on occasion, especially the next in a series). I generally browse using the genre and want to know more about the book than just the title and author.  I would have though I was average, maybe I'm not so much.

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I cane be that way, too - I'm a little more fastidious when it comes to my CD collection, because that's something I have on display and take a bit of pride in, so condition matters a bit more, especially if I'm after something with limited availability. I'll still buy some titles with not too much regard for whether there's a detailed description, but in cases where there isn't, I accept that there's a risk it won't be perfect and I won't mind too much if it isn't, just as long as it plays.

When I look for books on eBay or websites, 99% of the time, I'm after a specific title / author to read, and as long as all the pages are there, and they're all readable, I'm happy. 

@gec - sorry, I did completely miss that, not sure why as looking at your post again, the sarcasm wasn't exactly subtle.  

With a lot of my items (craft supplies) facts are better than anything else, they'll require buyers to use their imagination to envisage what to create with them ect. It just sucks when they use their imagination in place of the facts.